Interview with Alfonso Alfonsi

Partial Transcript: "So Alfonso, you were born, you said, into a middle class Roman family. Is that correct?"

Segment Synopsis: AA was born to a Roman family in 1953. He experienced agrarian reforms as a child, which caused his family to switch from sharecropping to individual farming. During AA's generation, farming was no longer a main occupation, but remained as a way to produce wine as people started getting jobs in nearby factories. During the generation of his daughter, access to higher education and other types of jobs improved.

Keywords: Agrarian Reforms; Education; Factories; Farming; Roman Family; Sharecropping

Partial Transcript: "There were lots of changes in names for instance..."

Segment Synopsis: There were changes in how people were named during AA's generation. Traditionally, almost all names had some kind of familial importance, but as cultural changes took place, names started to be taken from popular culture and actors, and emphasis came off of the family names.

Keywords: Actors; Cultural Changes; Names; Popular Culture

Partial Transcript: "So what kind of political atmosphere, attachment did you grow up in?"

Segment Synopsis: They discuss the political affiliations of the AA's family. His father was a cleric in the appeals court in Rome. His mother worked 9-5, while in school and raising a family. His father worked 4-7. His parents were not very politically active. They voted to protect individual rights and supported the Democratic Catholics. They recognized the importance of fair elections and enabling voters to have an equal part in the voting process.

Keywords: Court of Appeals; Democrat Catholics; Election; Politics; Voting

Partial Transcript: "So he was a strong advocate for representative government in the postwar period and a strong believer in that direction for Italy..."

Segment Synopsis: AA's father was a strong supporter of representative government after the war and felt it was taken for granted. AA discusses the time when his father was involved in the vote for a monarchy or republic. When looking back at his father's interests, he was anti-communist. While his father was not a very devout Catholic, his mother was the complete opposite.

Keywords: Catholicism; Communism; Monarchy; Representative Government; Repulibic; Voting

Partial Transcript: "So tell me a bit about your education."

Segment Synopsis: AA went to public school for elementary and high school. An English teacher had greatly influenced his formation as a student. He was taught vocabulary and got opportunities that weren't generally available to others of his generation.

Keywords: Education; English; High School; Vocabulary

Partial Transcript: "So where did you attend university? Here in Rome or..."

Segment Synopsis: He attended University in Rome. AA worked for the university and Italian radio broadcasts. He learned about Islam while at university. He spent most of his life's work as a sociologist. He was influenced by the Catholic Democratic Movement.

Keywords: Catholic Democratic Movement; Islam; Radio; Sociology; University

Partial Transcript: "So how did that happen? Did that happen when you were at university beforehand?"

Segment Synopsis: He was raised Catholic like many in his generation and that stuck with him through high school. He was uncertain of his political beliefs in high school. AA discusses the youth movements of the late 1960s and early 1970s. He began meeting with people in Catholic social movements that dealt with urban issues like poverty and impoverished urban areas.

Keywords: 1070s; 1960s; Catholicism; Political Beliefs; Poverty; Urban Issues; Youth Movement

Partial Transcript: "I see, because Mosse's work, it seems to me, resonated with this particular element in the political spectrum in Italy in those years."

Segment Synopsis: They discuss how AA got to know Mosse. There were certain aspects of Mosse's work which resonated with Italians. AA conducted an interview with Mosse in 1979. He had already read one of Mosse's books about the Renaissance. The idea of myths in contemporary society and their impact on shaping peoples' political views was of great interest to Italian intellectual society. Mosse also explored how religion was crucial to the modern world and not a thing of the past. AA's work and research were greatly influenced by Mosse.

Keywords: George L. Mosse; Italian Intellectual Society; Italians; Renaissance

Partial Transcript: "So what was the attitude towards Aldo Moro in those years?"

Segment Synopsis: They discuss the reputation of Aldo Moro, his assassination, and how Mosse was selected for the 1979 interview. His death was very painful in the democratic world, especially in Italy. It was a very complex situation, which created a personal divide within the family.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; Assassination

Partial Transcript: "So the idea was to have a book...to give back a voice to Aldo Moro."

Segment Synopsis: The purpose of the book was to give back a voice to Aldo Moro. It included his articles, writings, and speeches with a critical set of notes. Some were linguistic, historical, and political meditations that had not previously been published. The book also contained Moro's letters from when he was attacked.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; Book; Letters

Partial Transcript: "And so the choice of asking George Mosse to do this was twofold."

Segment Synopsis: Asking Mosse to work on the book was based on two things: the fact that this could not be asked of an Italian scholar because they had too much academic and personal involvement and the previous impact of Mosse's writings on Italian academia. He had already established a respectable reputation in Italy, which was why he was perfect for the book.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse; Italian Academia

Partial Transcript: "And you saw how this resonated with Moro's interests and his ideas..."

Segment Synopsis: The commemoration of Moro's life resonated with Mosse and his past work, because they dealt with many of the same issues. The committee was determined to get Mosse involved with the book because they knew that Mosse's input would only improve the book and give the situation level-headed context.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse

Partial Transcript: "Moro had experience of how fascism worked. How it integrated the personal and political..."

Segment Synopsis: Moro had experience with fascism and how its leaders integrated the personal and the political. One of Mosse's main concerns was the fate of liberalism and its weaknesses. Therefore, Mosse was a good choice for the interview.

Keywords: Fascism; George L. Mosse; Liberalism

Partial Transcript: "Okay, so we're discussing the interview and how it came about."

Segment Synopsis: They begin to discuss Mosse's interview for the book. The interview took place over the course of several days in New York in 1979. They discuss the process of preparing and conducting the interview.

Keywords: 1979; George L. Mosse; Interview; New York

Partial Transcript: "Oh you came to Madison!"

Segment Synopsis: Mosse invited AA to Madison and tells a story about his trip. They discussed the outline for the interview. The actual interview took place in New York. The purpose of the trip to Madison was to plan the structure of the interview. They discussed Aldo Moro's view of the state and the integration of the masses.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse; Interview; Madison, Wisconsin

Partial Transcript: "That's also to some extent answers to some of the criticism to the early days on his work that he had no grasp..."

Segment Synopsis: AA continues to talk about his interview with George Mosse and some of the criticism that he faced concerning his knowledge on Italian politics. AA addresses this criticism by pointing out that if Mosse was not knowledgeable on a certain aspect of Italian politics, he did not address it.

Keywords: George L. Mosse; Italian Politics

Partial Transcript: "And then I kept for last a few questions on the Aldo Moro kidnapping."

Segment Synopsis: AA discusses how he asked Mosse at the end of the interview about Aldo Moro's kidnapping. Mosse was hesitant to comment on these events because he considered them Italian controversies. AA says that he and Mosse established strong feelings of trust during the interview.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; Assassination; George L. Mosse; Interview; Italian Politics; Kidnapping

Partial Transcript: "Then we started the sessions. He was staying at a friend's house in..."

Segment Synopsis: AA and Mosse were both staying with friends in New York during the interview sessions. He talks about meeting one of Mosse's friends in New York. AA says that Mosse's interview sessions took place over a course of two weeks. While the interviews were taking place, a woman was transcribing them and AA tells a story about a mistake she made in the transcription.

Keywords: George L. Mosse; New York

Partial Transcript: "He was here, as a matter of fact, in Italy in 1979 before the book was published."

Segment Synopsis: George L. Mosse was in Italy in 1979 before his book on Aldo Moro was published. AA discusses Aldo Moro's assassination and the Red Brigade.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse; Red Brigade

Partial Transcript: "Are there aspects of George's responses that surprised you?"

Segment Synopsis: AA says that none of George Mosse's responses during the interview particularly surprised him or came out of the blue. In general, AA was impressed with Mosse's perspective and responses during the interview. He says that Mosse showed great intellectual integrity, which was crucial in his own development.

Keywords: George L. Mosse; Intellectual Integrity; Interview

Partial Transcript: "Another thing that I was impressed was in the end he accepted to answer some very hidden questions that I posed to him."

Segment Synopsis: AA discusses how George Mosse answered some "hidden questions" at the end of their interview, which impressed AA. He discusses Mosse's answers regarding Aldo Moro.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse; Interview

Partial Transcript: "I wonder, just as an aside, whether that aspect of George's character and of his work and his approach..."

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer discusses how George Mosse tried to stay true to a standard of moral integrity in his work. AA discusses how Aldo Moro strongly valued compromise and realized that uniting different people was difficult, but also worth attempting. He reflects on parliamentary democracy and concludes that it is passionate and noble.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; Democracy; George L. Mosse

Partial Transcript: "So the reception of the book when it first came out..."

Segment Synopsis: The reception of Mosse's book was shaped by the political climate and the tense situation caused by the assassination in Italy. Despite the substantial criticism that the book received, AA categorizes the book as a success. Critics condemned George's work as the outlook of a foreigner with no real grasp of Italian politics.

Keywords: George L. Mosse; Italian Politics

Partial Transcript: "Was there an event?"

Segment Synopsis: AA discusses an event based on the themes of the book that covered Italian democracy and its tension with western democracy. George Mosse gave a talk at this conference. AA talks about another talk that Mosse gave in 1981. This was the year that AA got married and Mosse gave him a wedding gift of Armenian pottery. The seminar was on the epistemology of the humanities and social sciences and the talk Mosse gave at that conference was eventually published in Italian.

Keywords: Democracy; George L. Mosse; Humanities; Italian; Social Sciences

Partial Transcript: "And then in 1984, he made another conference for us."

Segment Synopsis: AA discusses a talk that Mosse gave at a conference in 1984 on his studies regarding the respectability of the middle class. Mosse also became a member of an international board of advisors for an organization to which AA belonged. The board met in New York in June of 1984 and AA discusses the other members.

Keywords: 1984; Conference; George L. Mosse; Middle Class

Partial Transcript: "And then I met him again in 1989, in Madison during one of my stays in the United States."

Segment Synopsis: AA met Mosse in Madison, Wisconsin in 1989 for another interview. They discussed the rise of neo-fascism in Europe. Mosse was intrigued that his work was being read by the Italian new right.

Keywords: George L. Mosse; Italian Politics; Neo-Fascism

Partial Transcript: "So it sounds as if you kept a relationship going with George throughout his life?"

Segment Synopsis: AA kept in touch with George Mosse throughout his life. He was also involved with the Fondazione Aldo Moro.

Keywords: Fondazione Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse

Partial Transcript: "Much has changed in Italy and Europe and the world since the interview was conducted and certainly we have to take that into account in understanding how the second edition was received..."

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer points out that despite the fact that much has changed in the world since George Mosse's interview, his work is still relevant in the current political climate. AA discusses the second edition of the book, which received good reviews from many well established historians.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse

Partial Transcript: "Well, I have many more questions, but I think what we might do is I will send you some questions in written form."

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer talks about how he feels there is a crisis of representation and identity in Italy. AA discusses a feeling of "alienation of the masses" from the democratic process in current Italian politics. He talks about the internet and mass media and how the Italian people's participation with internet platforms is less than would be expected.

Keywords: Democratic Process; Italian Politics

Partial Transcript: "But the crisis of the democratic party and the traditional parties is true. They are failing..."

Segment Synopsis: AA feels that the current Italian political parties do not understand the alienation that many Italians face. He feels that Aldo Moro always tried to figure out the deeper trends of the various crisis that materialized during his time in order to respond accordingly. George Mosse pointed out the trend and problem of the political extremes dictating the political agenda.

Keywords: Aldo Moro; George L. Mosse; Italian Politics