Interview with E. Maxine Bennett

Maxine Bennett (#589) Transcript

AP: My name is Ann Peckham I'm a volunteer with the Oral History Department at the University of Wisconsin. This is July 12, 2002 and I'm here with Dr. Maxine Bennett in her home and we're going to be talking about her life as a faculty member of the University of Wisconsin. She specialized in ear, nose and throat. Maxine, we're delighted to do this. Could you start out by telling us a little bit about your early childhood and where you lived?

MB: All right, I'm an only child and my parents were 30 and 32 years old when I was born. They had been married six years. So it was an unusual beginning. Anyway, it was in Nebraska. I was born in Beaver City, Nebraska, which is the county court house. And my father was in the Treasury Department of the county. 00:01:00We were there only three years and then moved to Cambridge, Nebraska where I grew up. And Cambridge, Nebraska is a town of approximately 1,200. You know everybody and everybody knows you. And I had just celebrated my 70th high school reunion in Cambridge, Nebraska, their school and there are still 5 of us surviving. And of those five, two of us went on to higher education. One of them is a retired farmer and he's been very successful, and he organized our reunion for us. The other two were two ladies that grew up and lived in the area. One of them was a lawyer and he has been a successful lawyer in Miami, Florida. And 00:02:00Simon and I, a physician. And we were the only ones beside one other who is now dead who went on to higher education. There were 35 in our class and most of them stayed right there and became housewives or farm wives or what have you. Anyway, it was a great reunion.

My grandparents were early settlers and they came-- my grandmother, my mother's mother, my grandmother Klein was born in Richmond County, Wisconsin. 1 of 12 children and she was the middle one. My grandfather Klein came from Illinois and they moved west with everybody else on homesteads. My mother was born in a sod-- well, no, a dugout, which was on their farm. My father was born in a log house 00:03:00and sod roof in Holbrook, Nebraska. So that there is a connection there with Wisconsin.

MB: Let's see. Of their education, my mother, being one of three children and living in a dugout, there was little or no opportunity for education. They did have a school for the area and she got about a third grade-- I would imagine. There was no opportunity. My father graduated from high school in Cambridge, Nebraska in 1900. So that was the background of education. But I was always encouraged to continue and pursue my interests in whatever I wanted to do. There was no problem. And they encouraged me.

MB: I had no one that I knew who was in the field of medicine. I never knew a 00:04:00woman physician other than when I went to medical school, so that there was no background for my choice of going. After high school, which I graduated 70 years ago, I chose to go to Hastings College, a hundred miles away, a Presbyterian college. And the typical college that one knows about. It was very satisfactory. Had a good life there, we had good friends, and I graduated from Hastings College in 1936.

I intended to go on to medical school, but I was still a little young for that. So I taught two years high school in the Sand Hills in Nebraska and Ansley, 00:05:00Nebraska. I was assistant principal and I taught algebra, geometry, biology, general science, women's physical education, and I can't think what else.

AP: Was that all?

MB: That was all. Two years. And then I decided my decision to go to medical school, which I entered at the University of Nebraska, which is in Omaha. There I met-- there were three of us in the class: Dr. Margaret Prouty and Dr. Ethel Adler, who was an Omaha native, and myself. And there was no problem. We had good friends and we got along just fine.

Let's see.

AP: Could we go back just a minute? Your mother was born in a dugout. Was that 00:06:00because of the tornado country?

MB: Well, it was hilly country, you see, and there was prairie all around. Few trees were in their homestead and they just would dig a wall into a hillside and then cover it.

AP: I see houses that are sort of Frank Lloyd Wright type things that are [INAUDIBLE] now.

MB: And then they had a well, which they could dig and their water supply and that was it.

AP: My goodness.

MB: Well, let's see. In medical school I don't know what to say.

AP: Since there were only three of you women in medical school--

MB: Yeah, and Dr. Prouty was from Lincoln, her family. Her father had been a Methodist minister and her mother was a house mother at many of the sororities and fraternities in Lincoln at the University So Dr. Prouty was one with whom I 00:07:00became-- we had an apartment, we shared an apartment. And then when we graduated from medical school she interned in Chicago and I came here to Madison, Wisconsin in 19-- let's see. When did I come? I graduated in '42 from medical school and I came and had an internship at Madison General Hospital, Grace Craft was superintendent, Ida Collins was the head of nursing, and there were about four of us as I recall as interns. One was Dr. Jean Nordby in orthopedics here in Madison eventually. But anyway, we were interns. We had to do everything as you can appreciate being during the war.

When we graduated from medical school all of our classmates mostly, had to go 00:08:00into service. They would not take women physicians, so we were free from that. You could go into be a nurse or something in the women's army, but not as a physician.

AP: Oh, for goodness sake.

MB: So we were excluded that way. At Madison General Hospital it was a great experience. That's where I became acquainted and under the influence of Dr. Wellwood Nesbit, who-- ear, nose and throat doctor here in Madison. His brother Mark was in eye and they had an office in the old First National Bank building on the sixth floor. And I helped Wellwood a great deal. I was his assistant in surgery. And he encouraged me to come and be has assistant in the preceptorship at his office and St. Mary's at Madison General, which afforded me opportunity for training and in the office. I was with him for seven years. And at the end 00:09:00of that time, I was eligible to-- and with that, he was clinical head of ear, nose and throat at the university hospitals, and so I had that opportunity of association at the university on my preceptorship.

MB: So then I became eligible to take my American Boards. Went to New York. How I got there I don't recall. Must of been train. I don't know. But anyway, I took my American Boards and that was 1949. And it was six weeks before I learned that I had passed them. And it was at that time that Dr. Prouty and I decided to go to Switzerland to climb mountains. But before that we had been climbing mountains all during medical school at Cheley Colorado camps and Dr. Prouty or 00:10:00Joe, she was head mountaineering counselor and I was assistant and also out camps. So we got involved in mountain climbing in Colorado and it became one of the things we did all the time on any vacation. We climbed the Matterhorn in addition to other mountains in Switzerland, the Jungfrau and the Monch and the Eiger. And august 12th and 13th as I recall the dates in 1949.

Arnold Glatthard was a well known Swiss guide and he was our guide with another man because we each had-- it's just two on a rope. And we climbed the Matterhorn and it was a great thing.

AP: How long did that take you?

MB: Well we left Zermatt in the afternoon around 2 o'clock and then walked up to 00:11:00the overnight hut, which is where we stayed all night. And then got up at 2 o'clock in the morning to start to climb because you want to get before the sun hits the glaciers and melting and what have you. We were on top at 11 o'clock in the morning.

AP: Oh my goodness.

MB: And then it takes a lot more work coming down. And then we came back down to Zermatt But it was two days.

AP: Did you can carry packs with everything that you needed?

MB: Oh yes. And our equipment was quite, not like it is in this day and age, but adequate. Crampons, ice ax, protective-- and the picture that we have in there is of Dr. Prouty and me on top of the Matterhorn.

AP: My goodness.

MB: And then, let's see. In addition to this is extracurricular, but we did other climbing and Dr. Prouty was very avid on this. She and I shared an 00:12:00apartment and then we built a house out on Waubesa. But she climbed-- continued after I didn't anymore. But we climbed Rainier, we climbed Mexico, Popocatepetl, Iztaccihuatl, and Tetons, the Grand Teton, Longs Peak and Estes Park. I think she climbed it I don't know how many times, but she climbed the East Base. I didn't go into that too much. But anyway, that was extracurricular.

MB: After I got my Boards and Wellwood Nesbit was very kind about this and Dr. Tenney who was the pediatrician, the father of "Hod" [H. Kent Tenney III]. He was a good friend and he encouraged me to go to the Bureau of Public Education 00:13:00and I was there for three years as the medical director in the Bureau for Handicapped Children at the state. And that was fun. We had hearing clinics all over the state and did all kinds of things with Delavan and Jamesville, the two schools for the blind and the deaf.

MB: Then I was offered the opportunity to go to the University as full time faculty. Dr. Middleton was dean and he was extremely kind. And he offered me the position of associate professor. There were no full time people in ear, nose and throat. The eye department was pretty limited also. Dr. [Peter] Duehr, Dr. [Frederick] Davis, all of those. But I went. It was a great experience. We had good relationships with students and the Department of Surgery in which ear, nose and throat is. We continued that and eventually I got the program approved 00:14:00for residency training and I was appointed chairman of ear, nose and throat at the university hospitals. We got our first residents and our first residents-- two of them. One was a German and one was a Korean boy. And they were two of our first resident. And they continued to keep in contact. And the Korean boy is very close and he considers me his American mother.

AP: Oh, that's nice. When did all this happen?

MB: Well I went to the University full time in 1953. And I did a lot of the teaching of the medical students and I got that junior teaching award of bed pan 00:15:00award. I have it in there. It says Matterhorn Bennett or something like that. Anyway, I had a good relationship with students. And of the many students one conti--down in Marco Island. Dr. Folsom. Every time we go there, he's a Wisconsin graduate and Wisconsin-- born here. He's in Marco and whenever we go he always says to me or to other people in the waiting room, she was my teacher.

MB: Anyway, that continued. We had wonderful relationships. I got good residents. I never had a woman doctor apply for a residency the whole time I was at the medical school. They're just weren't women interested and there weren't that many women physicians. So I never had the opportunity of training a woman resident. But I trained many of them and one of them was Dr. Jim Brandenburg. 00:16:00Now Dr. Brandenburg, a Madison native and he went into the service and then he was getting ready and I got him to come back as an assistant professor in the ear, nose and throat division of the Department of Surgery. And he became full time and was a great asset. And when I decided to retire, he became chair, and continued so and has been very successful.

AP: And what year was that?

MB: Well I retired in 1978. The reason I retired, we we're going to move into that new hospital complex and I could not go for that. And I was able at that time to retire, which I did. And I was very pleased and knowing that Jim was there to take over, it was one of the great times. Now something here about--

AP: Yes, let's go back a little bit to when you came to the University. Well there weren't very many places in the country to train ear, nose and throat doctors, were there?

MB: No. Most of them would have been in New York, Chicago. Michigan had a good department. Minnesota had a good department. Those are ones that I knew. But they weren't large departments. And I had a maximum of four residents before I retired.

AP: Four at one time?

MB: Well, there were four in different years.

AP: In two years. And how big a staff was there?

MB: Well our staff consisted primarily of--before we got Jim Brandenburg--of clinical people. They all volunteered their services. Rollo Lang who was with Dr. Taborsky and Dr. Nesbit. Dr. Taborsky, who was Wellwood's son-in-law married 00:18:00Nancy Taborsky. Or Nancy Nesbit. So he took over Dr. Nesbit's practice after he died, and then they were all clinical professors. They came and assisted in surgery and taught our residents. We had one from Marshfield, Bright Larkin and he came down and just was wonderful with our residents in anatomy and everything. They all volunteered their time. They didn't have the opportunity for that. There were no private patients.

Early when I came, I just was on the salary as I recall. It was $6,000. And then when the Department of Surgery decided that they would have surgical associates, 00:19:00so private patients were admitted and we as professors or doctors could have private patients. And it was all through surgical associates who managed everything. And so that was the way. But like Rollo Lang, they were all clinic. They never got any money. They didn't have that privilege. But I think--

AP: And that was a very nice arrangement?

MB: Yes it was. And Dr. Schmidt was chairman of surgery, Dr. Curreri, Tony Curreri, later, they were wonderful people. I was the only woman in the Department of Surgery because OB and Gynecology were separate. And so I was the only woman and in surgery, you know, they have this dressing room where they all get together and talk and what have you. Well, I wasn't allowed there, so I 00:20:00worked with the nurses and it worked just beautifully. They were wonderful ladies.

AP: Do the women have their own dressing room now?

MB: Gee, I don't know.

AP: I think they do.

MB: Oh, they must have.

AP: They must because there are so many of them.

MB: There are so many of them, yes. And one of the honors and things that I accomplished for which I'm very proud-- well, I got my Boards that was necessary. But Triological Society is a special group and it's triological, which is-- I mean, American Otological Society, American Rhinological Society and the American Laryngological Society, the Triologic.

It is by invitation and qualifications and all of that. I had good friends in Milwaukee, Meyer Fox and a few others who were members of the Triological. They put my name. They nominated me-- that was while I was still full time-- to 00:21:00become a member. So I had to present a paper at the middle section meeting, which was at Rochester. And I presented a paper on blastomycosis of the larynx. Well, it was received and they were all very nice. Then it was approved for my candidacy, so for the candidacy I was requested to write a thesis and then it would be judged. I wrote a thesis, which was a research project on unilateral six nerve cranial nerve paralysis with secondary to sphenoid sinus cancer. And it was a long dissertation. I did a lot of work for it. It was approved and accepted. And in 1967 I was taking in as a member of the Triological Society. I think as I recall and everybody else recalls, I think I was the first woman 00:22:00member of the Triological Society. And that was a great privilege and a great opportunity because you met otolaryngologists from all over. And it was about 600, as I recall, membership. It was restricted.

AP: Oh.

MB: And then I was chairman of the middle section of the Triological, which they had the four sections. And they meet in different parts of the location--and I was chairman of that one here in Madison, which was a great opportunity. But that was one of the good successes.

AP: Should we pause for a moment?

MB: Yes, sure.

MB: Well as far as location, when I first came, my office, quotes, was on the fourth floor of the hospital in the area-- oh golly. It was one floor below the 00:23:00surgery department and I shared an office, I think it was Betty Bamforth, but I'm not sure when she did come. But then our clinic was on the first floor of the hospital in the walkway, the hallway between the medical school and the hospital. And an eye department was on the left side and the ear, nose and throat on the right. We shared a nurse who took care of-- we had clinics on Tuesdays and Thursdays as I recall. All the patients were most of them--

[background noise] Martha?

AP: This was at Wisconsin, your office, at Wisconsin General Hospital?

MB: That's right. And we had patients on 5 East and we had a clinic up there for the patients who were admitted or had to be checked out. But it was very limited. Ruth Parkinson was our nurse for both eye and ear, nose and throat 00:24:00clinics. All patients were clinic patients. We kept busy. Medical students were assigned to us for teaching and training, which they did beautifully. And then we were moved, I think it was Dr. Middleton who made the arrangements. We were transferred over to Bradley Hospital.

Now you had to go through x-ray to get to Bradley. But we had beautiful quarters established for us at Bradley. I had a private office. We had wonderful nurses, a large reception room, good examining rooms, a conference room where we had conferences every Saturday morning. So it was a great improvement. And that was continued. When they were going to move to the new hospital I decided, no thanks. I didn't want to contend with that, so I retired in 1978 and Dr. 00:25:00Brandenburg took over as chairman. It was a well known program, good residencies, good training, and we had wonderful residents those 10 years that I was chairman.

AP: Now in Bradley that was pediatrics?

MB: That's right.

AP: The pediatrics bed patients.

MB: That's right. And that was transferred to me and they left that. I don't know where they put them, but our patients were on five east together with eye patients. And as far as the other women on the hospital faculty, there were very few of us. Helen Dickey in internal medicine, Dr. Thorton in OB/gynocology.

AP: Dr. Mendenhall?

MB: No, she wasn't full time at the-- no, so she was at the Veteran's Hospital 00:26:00in student health. Sally. And Dr. Bamforth, Betty Bamforth, was in anesthesia, and very active. But I think that was about all of the women on the faculty. There was never another woman in the Department of Surgery.

AP: That's interesting. What do you consider your single most important contribution?

MB: I guess getting the ear, nose and throat otolaryngology approved and residency in training and development. And through the great help with the clinical people, Dr. Kim Scott, Rollo Lange, all of them who contributed so much in the teaching and training.

AP: That's very nice. Did you serve on any campus committees? What is it, the 00:27:00faculty senate or any of those things?

MB: Well, I can't recall any specific thing. In the community Dr. Prouty and I both became members of the Altrusa Club, which we got to know many of the ladies in the community which has changed considerably. And then, oh, let's see.

AP: Well the department was fairly small, so there probably weren't too many departmental committees.

MB: No, there weren't. And in the Department of Surgery there weren't any specific committees.

AP: How about deans?

MB: Deans? Well Dr. Middleton was the only dean that I knew. And he was great.

AP: Well you knew John Bowers.

MB: Oh, yes.

AP: Everybody's interested in hearing about--

MB: I was on the committee in the Department of Surgery when we went over to see 00:28:00Elvehjem and we fired John Bowers. We were the ones.

AP: On what basis was this?

MB: Gosh, I can't remember. I don't know what he was condemned for. I don't know. I don't recall. But I know I recall going to Dr. Elvehjem's office, the president, and representing one of the people in the Department of Surgery, agreeing that Bower should leave.

AP: How about the honors and awards. You talked about that a little bit. You got the bed pan. And that was a great honor to be the president of the Triological Society.

MB: The bed pan award was the junior award for teaching. And I gave regular lectures to the medical students on ear, nose and throat and then they 00:29:00participated actively in the clinics and with direction and experience.

AP: Let's talk a little bit about after you retired. Did you keep on climbing mountains?

MB: Yes. Oh yes. But not as much because after all, Dr. Prouty and I built a house out on Lake Waubesa. And it's opposite McFarland. We had a large lake shore and also Indian effigy mounds. And so we arranged with John Steinman, an architect from New Glarus area, and he designed our house, which was unbelievable. It was designed so it did not interfere with any of the Indian mounds, the effigy mounds. Getting my legs crossed out of here. The house was 00:30:00designed so that it faced the lake and the windows on the lakeside were 12 feet high. The overhang was such that it protected from the sun in the summer and in the winter afforded light to come in. We had nine outside doors. There was no plaster in the house. It was an unbelievable house. So after Dr. Prouty-- she left and went into Oakwood, and I sold the house in 1990. But in that interval, there were lots of things that changed and activities.

AP: [End side 1, begin side 2] The things that you wanted to do at the time were retirement?

MB: Yeah, well, during my tenure at the university hospitals, Dr. Fred, who was president, was one of my patients. And Dr. Fred was a good friend and Elizabeth 00:31:00McCoy, another good friend, Altrusa and back to reality. And Dr. Fred one occasion said, now, there's going to be a new dean of women to replace Dean Troxell. She's coming from the University of Kansas and I think you should get to know her because Kansas and Nebraska. So he encouraged that. And so Martha Peterson came as dean of women. And that was--

AP: 1956.

MB: That's right. And as dean of women with that and then Dr. Schafer, who was at the Jackson Clinic, she was also from Kansas. So here were three-- and then, Dr. Prouty, the four of us. We kind of formed a relationship. And with Martha when she spent-- we spent a lot of time. We did a lot of canoeing. And this was vacation time. And so we did a lot of that and had great times. And then when 00:32:00Martha went to Barnard as President of Barnard, I had sabbatical and a semester leave at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. Dr. Baker was chairman there. So I got acquainted with New York and then with Martha's connections on her board memberships of Exxon and MetLife and what have you. She told them at the Exxon directors that it was awfully hard when they came with their wives that she was-- didn't like to intrude and all of that. And they said well, bring somebody with you.

So I was privileged and able to go with her on so many of the Exxon trips. We went to Japan and she was to christen an Exxon tanker in Japan. And they were just wonderful. We had two Japanese men who escorted us and met us and took us every place. And very Friendly. And at the end they said when we heard that Ms. 00:33:00Peterson was coming, we knew that she must be very old and very rich. But then when she said she was bringing her doctor we decided that she must not be very well. So we went to Japan with all of these. We went to England so many times and had such great experiences with that.

I did Mexico climbing after I retired I think. Maybe not. But anyway, I didn't have that much interest in it. Dr. Prouty continued on her traveling all over the world. And she was in pediatrics at the Jackson Clinic. Then upon retirement, Martha and I had in the meantime, experienced lots of good trips in Door County. And acquired through good friends, Charles--

Martha.

MB: Oh, Charles Bun and Harriet. He was in law school and all of this and well known in Madison. They knew that we liked Door County and they had a piece of property on Lake Michigan that they were not going to develop. And they offered Martha and me the opportunity to camp there, which we did. And then eventually, to buy the property, which we did. And it was absolutely wonderful. When we bought the property it was 200 feet onto Lake Michigan, 2 miles north of Jacksonport. We build a house, which was wonderful, we used as a summer vacation spot. And then upon retirement, we decided that we should go into an antique business because of our background and all the antiques that we owned. And so we 00:35:00were able to get a log cabin in Jacksonport and opened the Jacksonport-- The Port Antique Shop, which I was able to spend time there because I had retired and Martha was still active in her deaning and presidencys. And so we had this shop and we had a wonderful time developing it, getting to know people, and many of these things you see were in our antique shop. And we go to auctions. And at that time you could afford to buy something at an auction. And we did and we bought these things and had one-- we had quilts coming out of our ears from family inheritance and everything. Well that we continued for eight years. But it was great and we just opened at very short hours. Had a wonderful time.

AP: That's a lot of work.

MB: Oh yes. But it was great. That's one of the things that I did. Now let's see 00:36:00what else.

MB: Well, after we sold the property up in Door County, and then had the property here, and many of the meetings of the Triologic or the Academy of Otolaryngology were held in Florida. On the West Coast, the East of the ocean side. And there Martha was retiring from Metlife-- no, Macy's board. And so there was a nice sizeable thing. And she said, why don't we look at a condo down in Florida for retirement. So we looked and we got acquainted with somebody over. I had had a meeting in Marco so that we liked it better than over in the 00:37:00Miami side. So we went to Marco and had a wonderful relationship with this real estate man, and found this condo on the Gulf, which is the Summit House on the 12th floor. We look out and we have a beautiful view of the Gulf. Sunset it gets the sunset views and we spend time now down there. And I sold the house on Waubesa. We got this apartment here on Enterprise Lane. And we spend six months in Florida and six months here.

AP: That's wonderful. Sounds like a pretty good life.

MB: I've been very, very fortunate.

AP: Have you any regrets?

MB: Never, never. We have so many friends. The problem is now we're all getting 00:38:00so old that most of them are gone and we don't have that contact, but we have memories.

AP: Could we go back to your very beginning. That you were an only child with what at the time were probably older parents. So in this day and age they wouldn't be older at all, they'd be young.

MB: That's right. Well, it was. And again, my mother, she was-- learned to be a seamstress. She always did sewing for people in the community and she didn't have the education, but she was self-taught and she was extremely capable. Very active in the Congregational Church and Rebecca Lodge and all of that. So I had many contacts. And my father, he was a very capable man and he was chairman, or 00:39:00he was head of the Cooperative Oil Company for 25 years in Cambridge. So that was that connection there. And I can remember in High School the farmers all came to town on Saturday. So I had built a little pop stand on the grounds of the Cambridge Cooperative Oil Company and had this pop stand. And then on Saturdays, my mother would mix up the ice cream, but I had to freeze it. And so then we would take it down and we had homemade ice cream cones on Saturdays. I ended making $100 profit on my pop stand, and that's what I used when I went to Hastings College.

AP: So you don't think being an only child was a handicap?

MB: Oh, never. Never. And I had so many friends in the neighborhood and activities, I played baseball and everything else. We didn't have women's 00:40:00athletics in any way. But I had many opportunities and I was very active and probably a tomboy.

AP: Well, that's all right. Well, thank you very much.

MB: Well, it's an awful lot of history. I don't think there was anything else that--.

Yes, yes. I know something else. As a result in my retirement up in Door County I went to the Peninsula Art School. It was a great school and it still is. And I decided, well I hadn't done anything in art or drawing or anything like that. So I took a class first in drawing and then in watercolor from Jim Range, who was one of the instructors. It was absolutely marvelous. And so then from there I started into pastel class. And I became very interested and loved pastels. Gave 00:41:00up the other and have since been a pastel artist for Florida sunsets over the Gulf. And I can show you many of them.

AP: I'd like to see some of them.

MB: That are here as well as in Marco. So again, this summer we're going up to Door County for a week and I'm going to take another pastel course from Bonnie.

AP: Wonderful.

MB: And it's been great. And that was just extracurricular. I don't know of anything else.

Oh, I've been active on the art league board down in Marco. They have a very active art society. And that's been fun. And you know, the usual things.

AP: That's wonderful. Well thank you so much.

MB: Well you're more than welcome.

AP: This is great.

MB: I hope that it isn't too long and drawn out.

AP: No, no. It's just perfect.