Interview with Thomas Berthold

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1891

BERTHOLD, TOM

BERTHOLD, TOM (1955-)

Interviewed: 2019

Interviewer: Lea Goldstone

Index by: Sophie Clark

Transcribed by: Teresa Bergen

Length: 32 minutes

First Interview Session (July 30, 2019): Digital File

00:00:00

LG: All right. So today is July 30, 2019. My name is Lea Goldstone. And I'm interviewing Tom Berthold. This is a phone interview being conducted for the Madison General School of Nursing Alumni Oral History Project, from 1905 to 1982. And for sound quality purposes, could you please say your name and spell your last name.

TB: My name is Thomas Berthold. And it's spelled B-e-r-t-h-o-l-d.

LG: Perfect. So could you just give me a little background about like your upbringing?

TB: Well, let's see. I was born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin back in 1955. And I lived there my entire life up until I graduated nursing school at Madison General Hospital. And then I moved to Milwaukee. So I spent my formative years, 00:01:00of course, in Madison, Wisconsin. And what kind of things do you want me to mention?

LG: Sure. Did anything in your background kind of guide you towards nursing? Or was that just a choice you made in college?

TB: Oh, sure. I had (dog barking) Pardon me. I had taken care of my grandfather when he became ill. He had a stroke. And I would take him to physical therapy two or three times a week to a local nursing home in Madison. And I watched all the physical therapists really well. And at first I thought wow, that's what I wanted to go into, I wanted to become a physical therapist. And so when I graduated high school, then I went the first two years to UW Madison. And I took 00:02:00the introduction to physical therapy course. And I discovered after taking the course that that wasn't exactly? what I wanted to do with my life. And I knew I wanted to do something in the medical profession. And so I decided to go into nursing school. And at that time, there was a waiting list at University of Madison. And so I found Madison General Hospital School of Nursing. And got in right away. So that's how I ended up there.

LG: And did you have any perception of what nursing school was going to be like, before you went?

TB: No. Not at all. No idea.

LG: So what years did you attend the nursing school?

TB: Say that again. I'm sorry.

LG: No, it's all right. What years did you attend nursing school?

TB: Oh, sure. Let's see. I started in '76 and graduated in 1978.

LG: Seventy-six, okay, perfect. Let me just jot that down. Okay. Perfect. And how large was your class, if you remember?

TB: That's a good question. You know, I couldn't even guess.

LG: That's all right. (laughs)

TB: Yeah, you know, the years have taken its toll on a certain number of neurons. (laughs) You'd think that we would remember. But no, I don't. The weird thing is I remember, I went to Riball? High School and we had 523 in our senior class. (laughs) I can't remember how many were in nursing school.

00:03:46

LG: That's all right. Did you live in the dorms? Or how did that work?

TB: Yeah. I did, actually. Just because my family had moved to Milwaukee at that time. Well, it was a really inexpensive way to attend school. So yes, I did live 00:04:00in the dorms on that first floor. McConnell Hall. I remember that. And actually, a couple of years ago, when I went to a reunion, I actually went into McConnell Hall in the hallway. It's all changed and it's been remodeled since then. But I did see where my old room was, and I thought that was kind of interesting. But yeah, that was a good time. That was one of the best decisions I ever made was to live there.

LG: Could you describe some of your experience in the dorms?

TB: Well, I think a lot of camaraderie, you know, with your class. And then a lot of students in the previous class were there as well. So you were able to 00:05:00talk to, see each other. And know what to expect, what was coming, what was happening. And a lot of the people would get together and you know, go out periodically. Celebrate. You developed a lot of really close friends. And it was pretty enjoyable for a male. I think there were nine males in our class. So the majority of the class were female, of course. So it was kind of a, I don't know how would you describe it? Like a bountiful feast (laughs) back then. So, yeah, it was very enjoyable.

LG: And what were some of like the social or recreational activities that you guys would do? As like a group, or even just on your own?

TB: We'd go to the Badger football games. We would go to, we'd go out a lot to local bars and things. Because at that time, it was 18, you could go to local bars. There was a lot of dancing. Parties. That type thing. Let's see. What else did we do in Madison back at that time? I remember there was a place called the Stone Heart that everybody hung out at, because it was only a block away from the hospital and from McConnell Hall. I don't think it's still there. But that's where a lot of people would go then for social activities and things like that. You know, I can't really think of anything else that we really did. I think we 00:07:00did have to study a lot and we did have a lot of clinical hours. So there wasn't really a lot of free time. But we managed to squeeze some in.

00:07:21

LG: So could you describe also some of, what were your classes like, from what you remember? (barking)

TB: Describe what the classes were like, did you say?

LG: Yeah.

TB: Well, let me see if I can remember back that far. (laughs) Yeah, we had a lot of the theory classes we had in McConnell Hall itself. I'm pretty sure there were classrooms there. I think we would have some, during our [unclear] sections we would have pre and post conferences. I guess you would consider those theory 00:08:00classes [unclear]. But just when we would have pure theory, it was in a classroom in McConnell Hall. Everybody would attend. I'm trying to think way back, what did we even use back then? Gosh, I can't remember if there were PowerPoints or not. But it was mostly just lecture from our instructors, from what I recall. So that's about all I can really recall, as far as what the classes were like.

LG: Oh, that's okay. Do you remember anything being like particularly challenging to you during your time there? Or was it kind of just run of the mill?

TB: No, I don't know if it was really at that time run of the mill, but I think everybody was pretty, including myself, pretty dedicated. And certainly wanted 00:09:00to be successful. And so no, I don't think it was run of the mill at that time. I think it was every bit as rigorous as nursing school is today. And it's kind of interesting in that, I am a teaching instructor right now at UW Oshkosh. So I kind of know what current, the current rigor of nursing education is today. And I really think that it was every bit as challenging and rigorous as it is now. Maybe even more so now. But back at that time, yeah, there was a lot of studying involved, I know that. The first two years you would do your prereqs and that 00:10:00was very rigorous as well. And so I think nursing school was just every bit as challenging and rigorous. So that's kind of what I can remember.

LG: And so technology-wise, especially, because you said you went '76 to '78, you were kind of on the brink of a lot of things kind of coming up. How was that kind of in that transition from nursing school like as a student nurse into going into like professional nursing? Were you introduced into any new technologies? Or was that still kind of a little too early?

TB: Well, you know, I think my first job was a med surg position at a hospital in Milwaukee. So I was fully, I definitely was very well prepared for that position. And I think it was because in those days the diploma schools were 00:11:00known for their strong clinical work, or clinical performance, because they spent much more clinical hours. Because let's face it, back then diploma schools, hospitals used student nurses as employees [unclear]. So we had a lot of clinical hours. So we were much more prepared than say a traditional BSN graduate back at that time. So yeah, I think I was definitely prepared for the technology of that time.

But if you look back 38 years, or however long it's been, what a difference, what a change, at how far we've come. Just for example, back in 1978, '79, if 00:12:00somebody were to have open heart surgery in the hospital, close to ten days to two weeks. Now they have them in and out in three days. It's just amazing what everything has become. But back at that time, that was cutting edge. As just today, the way things are done are cutting edge. So it's quite fascinating when you think about that. You're really stirring up a lot of memories. So I'm pretty into it. Just the monitoring alone. Development of CCU, critical care nursing at the time. And I remember the huge, those huge monitors where we'd do sonograms, catheters and [unclear] pulmonary [unclear] pressures and CBTs and all that kind of stuff. Nowadays, they don't even use that technology. They've advanced so much further that that's not even needed anymore. It's interesting. But, yeah. 00:13:00At the time, we were, I felt well-prepared.

LG: And kind of on that note, if you can remember again, this is all just as best as you can do, do you remember kind of any specific like practices that you were taught, or that you administered, like when you were working in the hospitals as a student nurse?

00:13:29

TB: Any practices that we were taught. Well, I think everything that we were taught back at that time when I got my first job used everything as far as whether it was insertion of Foley catheters, IV insertion. Of course, those are skills, those are technical skills. There was some process. The care planning, that was very big and very important back then because it was all done manually. 00:14:00We didn't have computer programs. We didn't have charting systems and Cerner and all these things, all this stuff, the care planning is built into that nowadays. We had to do all that by hand. [unclear] students, but you know, they type them into computer programs nowadays when they have to learn how to do care planning. But once we're out nowadays and practicing, your plans are already there. So as far as taking care of patients, so that was real big. That manual care planning. And then of course the technical skills that you learn, you didn't use those in practice all the time every day. So I don't think, nowadays it's so much more streamlined and modern compared to what it was for us. I think that's what you were kind of asking.

LG: Yeah.

TB: Okay.

LG: And when you were a student, did you have much experience like working in hospitals? Like did they take you to work in different hospital environments?

TB: Repeat the first part of that question again?

LG: While you were a student nurse at Madison General, did you have any experience like throughout the year working at any hospitals other than just Madison General? I think they were called clinicals?

TB: No, I had all my, if you're asking, I think all my clinicals were at Madison General Hospital.

LG: Okay. Got you.

TB: Yeah, I didn't have clinicals anywhere else. But I think you were asking me did I feel prepared enough to go ask in a different hospital? Is that what you were asking?

LG: Well, sure, yeah, you can answer that one, too. I'm just kind of trying to get an idea of what kind of duties you had as a student nurse kind of outside of 00:16:00the classroom.

TB: Oh, what kind of duties? Well, we did everything a professional nurse would do. Obviously, we're working under their license. They're precepting us. It's the same today as it was then. But I didn't have any [unclear] or any qualms to go into any other hospital. You know, learning their system. And working as a nurse in their system. Because of the preparation that we had back then. So I think like I said, it's the same today, only much more modernized, streamlined and more technologically advanced, which is a good thing. I think that's what you were asking.

LG: Yeah. And do you have any particular stories or anecdotes or anything that 00:17:00you remember in particular that sticks out to you about your experience as a student nurse at Madison General?

00:17:11

TB: That was quite an interesting time, really, in my life. As far as any specific experiences that I can remember? I know that I developed a really close friendship with one of the other students, one of the other male students in my class. And we stayed friends throughout until, you know, throughout our lives until he, very sad thing, he passed away at 55 years old. Heart attack with no warning whatsoever. It's just one of those ones, you know, the old, what they call a widow maker, where it just gets you. So that was a very sad time in my 00:18:00life. But I remember we went through nursing school together, studied together. And his name was Don Wolfe. His real name was Terry, and his middle name was Don. But he wanted everybody to call him Don. And he ended up going to Nurse Anesthesia School in Puerto Rico. And came back to the United States and worked at Portage, at Divine Savior, for almost 30 years. Till he died. Which was real sad. That was a real part I remember was getting through nursing school with him. You know, bounce some things off of each other, as far as studying and that kind of thing.

And I remember a lot of my instructors, too. As a matter of fact, one of my instructors I still have as a Facebook friend. That's pretty interesting, 38 years. And they were good. They were very good instructors. I had no complaints 00:19:00about any of them. So back at that time, Madison General Hospital School of Nursing, they were good, for sure.

And as far as the rest of the experiences, very good staff nurses as well that took all of us students underneath their wing and trained us. There was nothing, back at that time, there was nothing like what people all talk about now, how a lot of the times nurses eat their young. Where they're kind of mean to the brand new nurses or the student nurses. Fortunately I don't see that today all the time. You still do occasionally. But back then, there was none of that. I think because the nurses recognized us--well, we were part of Madison General 00:20:00Hospital. That was the culture at the time. So they recognized that we were their helpers, employees, as well, and took care of us. They trained us well, taught us well.

I think that answered it.

00:20:20

LG: Yeah, that was great. Thank you. And could you tell me a little bit more about your career in nursing after you graduated?

TB: Oh, sure. Sure. So after I graduated, I went back to school down in Illinois. Got [unclear] in nursing, came back up to Wisconsin then. I got, at the time I got what they called the, it was like a certificate to practice nursing anesthesia. So I would [unclear] and then I didn't like it. (laughs) I just kind of [unclear]. But I kind of at the time just chucked it all. And I 00:21:00went into the medical sales arena, where I worked for medical companies that needed nurses to travel throughout the state and work with their equipment, work with neurosurgeons and [unclear] spinal fractures and cervical fractures and things like that.

And then still once in a while would work per diem as a nurse. And I had thought about traveling nursing for a while, but I never pulled the trigger on that one. Because that's for the youngsters after [two years?] experience then they should do that.

Then I worked for [unclear] didn't do nursing for about eight years.

and I missed it after working in the financial arena for a while. And so I came back. And I got a job at UW Oshkosh in the College of Nursing. I was pretty good with computers and things, so I kind of helped them out with [unclear] 2007-2008, that had to do with use of virtual worlds in nursing education. So I did work doing that, and I did clinical placement for accelerated nursing students from 2008 to like around 2018. For about ten years. At that time, in 2015, I went back to school myself and got my master's degree in nursing education so that I could become an instructor, rather than just work behind the scenes.

And so I started working as a nursing instructor in 2016. That's what I'm doing right now as well. And I'm also a home care, or a home infusion nurse, where I do that on a part time basis, when I'm needed. Administering home infusions for immunoglobulin therapy and for a new drug that just came out called Ultravec for multiple sclerosis patients. It's kind of the fascinating new drug that [unclear] beautiful [unclear] to people with MS. That's very, very rewarding to be welcomed into someone's home because you're actually able to do something that is helping them. So that's kind of where I am in a nutshell. And you know, I'm not a youngster anymore. And I had thought about going back and getting a 00:24:00doctorate, but that's about three more years. They'll probably retire me before I get done with that. I'm just content doing what I'm doing right now. And it's been rewarding. I like to tell people, well people ask I say yeah, I'm pretty happy with the twilight of my career right now. You know, this is what? [unclear] do something when you're in your sixties that you love and [unclear]. So that's pretty much me in a nutshell, where I am right now.

LG: That's great. What advice, if any, would you give to future nursing students kind of based on your experience as a student nurse?

00:24:48

TB: That's really fascinating because I get asked that all the time.

LG: I'm sure a as professor.

TB: Not right now, but all the years between nursing students that want to get into the program and [unclear] never think you're not good enough. And if you 00:25:00run into adversity along the way, as I said, don't give up, because adversity, if you have the drive and the strength and the desire, because that's most important. We're given that as humans. Motivation, desire and strength to achieve our goals. So never, ever give up on goals. That's what I tell them all the time. You know what you want, so you have to [unclear] give it everything you've got [unclear] I don't know. People, I just had my first, this past spring, my first graduating class that I had a hand in teaching all the way 00:26:00through it. So that was a wonderful experience to see them, and they still keep in touch. Obviously with social media now, it's so easy to keep in touch with people. Facebook and anything else. LinkedIn. You know, where you find other people at work and how they're doing. [unclear] It's a great time for everyone, I think. It's a great time for nursing. (call fails, resumes with better connection)

Where did I leave off?

LG: Just on what other advice you would give for future nursing students?

TB: Okay. Well, I'll see if I can reconstruct what I said. What I tell them all now, too, when I get asked that, is to never give up on your dreams and your goals. If you can't get in the first time, keep at it, you will get in. I remember an accelerated student that she got in on the fourth try. Because it's 00:27:00so competitive. And it still is nowadays because of the shortage of instructors. While there's simple a shortage of clinical spots as well, to train nurses. Because there's so many schools that have increased their enrollment to try to meet the demand. And there is a huge demand because of all the retiring baby boomers. That means 60 to 70 million people that are going to be hitting the healthcare system all pretty much at the same time. And they're going to need nurses to take care of them. So I just tell them, every human being is born with strong drive, strong motivation. Well, they're born with those. They may not be strong. You have to develop it and make it strong is what I tell them. So just never give up on your goals. And it's very rewarding. It's one of the richest, most rewarding careers that's out there. So I do, that's what I tell them. I say 00:28:00study, work hard. Do the absolute best you can do. And if you think you've done the best you can do, do more. That's the most I can tell you, because it's so competitive. Everybody says we use holistic admission process. So we take into account everything. Well, yeah, but the main thing is grade point average and your science grades. You need that. Because you're going to have trouble in patho-physiology 1 and 2, and pharmacology in nursing school, if you don't buckle down and get tutoring help if you need it. I tell them that, too. If you're having trouble, if you're just doing C work in chemistry and micro and things like that, I say, get help. You need to be getting Bs and As in that, ish. You want to be competitive with the rest of the people that are applying to get into nursing school.

So I like the fact that people reach out and ask. Because they are serious about it. So that's a positive. So that's pretty much my advice to them. I say, don't 00:29:00give up on your dreams. Because you'll get it. You'll make it. And they listen. That's what I like about this generation. There's hope. I didn't think there was. No, I'm just kidding about that. (laughs)

LG: And is there anything else that you'd want to include about your experience as a student nurse before I conclude this interview?

00:29:25

TB: Yeah, you know, geez, I guess one of the most impactful things that I myself remember as a student nurse happened to me about, oh, it was in 2012. Was it 2012? Yeah, 2012, okay. I ran into a woman at a conference in Montreal, it was a nursing conference. And she came up to me and she said to me, I don't know how she recognized me, but she said hi, and she said my name. And I looked at her and I could not remember for the life of me who she was. And it turned out that 00:30:00it was someone that I started my first job with fresh out of nursing school and she was fresh out of nursing school. And her name was Mary. And she told me, "I just wanted to thank you for everything you taught me at our first job." She said, "I don't think I would have been successful without how you mentored me." And here we both started at the same time. But she went to UW Madison, where they had very little clinical compared to our clinical experience at the hospital, and for that. This woman now works for Aurora System and she's in research and development. She's got a PhD. And she's just a high flyer. And to have someone like that come up to me and thank me for something that happened back in the 1978, '79, just was, made an impact on my life. And I guess kind of 00:31:00reinforced that I did the right thing. And along that way, I'm grateful for the education I got at Madison General Hospital School of Nursing. Because it gave me the ability to help someone else out, to help a colleague out. And I did not realize how impactful that was on her life. And it was a good feeling.

I tell everybody as well, all the students now, cherish these years while you're in nursing school. Because once you're out, the buck stops with you. You're on your own. So you better take advantage of everything you can right now, while you're in school. Just as I did when I was in nursing school.

31:48

[End Interview.]