Interview with Ann Budde

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1951

BUDDE, ANNE

BUDDE, ANNE (1939-)

Nursing student 1957-1960

Interviewed: 2019

Interviewer: Faith Hoffmeyer

Index by: Sophie Clark

Transcribed by: Teresa Bergen

Length: 76 minutes

First Interview Session (January 30, 2020): Digital File

00:00:00

FH: Okay, so today is January 30, 2020. My name is Faith Hoffmeyer and this is a phone interview for the Madison General Hospital School of Nursing Oral History Project. And can you please spell and state your last name for an audio check?

AB: Sure. It's Budde. It's B as in baker, U, D as in David, D as in David, E as in Echo.

FH: Great. Thank you. And now, can we just start with your early life? Where you grew up and a bit about that?

AB: Yes. I grew up in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin, on a farm, a dairy farm. Went to Saint Peter's Catholic School for the nine grades. And then went into Beaver Dam High School as a sophomore. After high school, well, in high school, I was in the band. I got pretty good grades. And a couple of us from Beaver Dam here decided we were going to go to nursing school. And we all, the five of us, 00:01:00decided to go to the same one, which was Madison General.

And one of the members of, at the graduation, I was first horn, French horn. First chair, French horn. And Marlene Balmer, now [Sant?], was a French horn player. And we became fast friends. and she's one of the five, including me, that went to Madison General Hospital School of Nursing.

And we've remained friends over the years, even till now. And a couple of years ago when there was a drought in terms of officers, people applying to be the officers or willing to be the officers, Mary Pautz got on the tail of all of us who graduated in 1960 and said, "Come on, guys, help us keep the organization going." So at that time, Marlene became the secretary and I became the treasurer. So that's how we've maintained this closeness all through the years. 00:02:00Graduated from the same high school. We'd come back to the same reunions, etcetera, etcetera.

But anyway, so then after graduation in 1960, I worked for a while at my local hospital here in Beaver Dam, which was called Saint Joseph's Hospital at the time. Then several years later, it merged with Lutheran Hospital, and it became Beaver Dam Community Hospital, Inc. And then just recently this past year it was gobbled up by Marshfield Medical Center. And so now we are Marshfield Medical Center-Beaver Dam. So that's a long story that you probably aren't interested in. But anyway, it's what's happened throughout the industry. Small hospitals being gobbled up. So that's what that is.

Anyway, I worked there for about a year after graduation. And then, right before 00:03:00graduation, my mother died. And she had been a patient at Madison General Hospital. But she was at home when she died. I mean, here in Beaver Dam at the hospital. And it was a significant turning point in my life. Accepting, when I was born, all my grandparents were dead before I was born. So I didn't have anybody really close who died. And that really got me off on a whirlwind.

So I eventually joined a convent. And I was at Milwaukee at Saint Joseph's Convent for, let's see, from '61 until '68. And during that time, I was working at what they called Sacred Heart Sanitarium. And its function was, at that time back in the '60s, kind of like an adjunct psychiatric place where they would 00:04:00treat people with hot water and cold water and [hay?] and all kinds of stuff. Well, I got assigned there to work. And as time went on, just maybe within a year, it became apparent that that was not the kind of therapy that was the main mode anymore. And so we decided, it was decided, that the hospital would convert to a rehab hospital.

So I was sent off to Minneapolis. Or at least Minnesota, I don't know if it was Minneapolis, I can't remember that now, to one of the Kennedy institutions. No, let's see. I'm not sure if that's what the name of it was. Anyway, it was a well-known rehab facility. And I was sent there to learn rehab and then come back and teach the rest of the staff at the sanitarium what rehab nursing and care was all about.

So eventually after about, oh, I would say nine months of education, the hospital changed its name to a rehab hospital. We got a physiatrist there. And staff were pretty well organized and able to care for the patients. It was a hard row to hoe, but it worked. Now I think it's really almost now a home for the nuns who have stayed there. Okay?

After that, after I left the convent, let's see, what did I do? Well, I worked in Milwaukee at different institutions. Staff nurse on nights, staff nurse here and there. I also then got into in-service education and worked at several hospitals in Milwaukee. Let's see. I can't remember exactly what the transition was. How did I get to New Jersey? Oh, I know. I got married. I have a very 00:06:00patchwork quilt kind of life. I was a farm girl, I was in a convent, I got married twice and divorced twice, so it's been kind of a patchwork quilt life.

So then we moved to New Jersey. He had a job as a civil engineer at the naval yard in Philadelphia. So we lived across the river in New Jersey. And I got into nursing at the hospital there in Camden, New Jersey. And the director of nursing didn't have an assistant at that time. So I kind of, after being [three to eleven?] supervisor for a while, I filled in for her when she would be on 00:07:00vacation. So I became kind of like her assistant. And I had good experience in those roles.

And the position became available at a hospital at the shore. It was a small hospital, Burdette Tomlin Hospital is what it was called then. Of course, the names have changed since then. And I was director of nursing there. It was an experience I will never forget. Because the doctors had their own way about them. Even though they didn't have the required experience to deliver babies, we had doctors delivering babies who really didn't have the experience. And I kind of knuckled down on that. And as a result, there were a lot of hard feelings between some of the medical staff and me.

I remember at one point, one of the doctors who didn't have privileges wanted to 00:08:00come in and deliver a baby. And I told him no. I told him absolutely no. The medical staff had decided these are the only doctors with the qualifications for delivering babies. And he came to my office and said, "Okay, what do you want? You want a mink coat? You want money?" I just about blew my stack at him. But anyway, that was an experience.

I left there and went to Episcopal Hospital in Philadelphia and was director of nursing there. And while there, I also completed, well, I had gotten a baccalaureate from Marquette University while I was in Milwaukee. But I completed a master's degree at the University of Pennsylvania. And that was in, hmm, I think that was in '68 or '78 or something. Seventy-eight. It was in '78. After that, let's see, where else did I go?

Oh, I went from Episcopal Hospital to Bridgetown Hospital in New Jersey. And I 00:09:00became director of nursing there. Then suddenly one of our vice presidents died. And I was asked to take over that role as a vice president in charge of administrative events. And for a while, nursing reported to me. But at the time, it was suggested that nursing report directly to the CEO. So I suggested that the director of nursing goes to the CEO. And that was done. That was a good decision. Anyway--

9:40

FH: Do you mind if I pause right there, because that was the perfect run-through. Do you mind if we go back a little bit to talk a bit more about your early life, and then move into your education and then your career? If you don't mind?

AB: Okay. Sure. Oh, that was fun.

FH: But that's good. Now I have such great background information for all these questions. So that was wonderful. Helpful.

AB: Okay.

FH: So when you're talking about the patchwork of your life and you said you were a farm girl. And you grew up with the five other people that ended up going to Madison General Hospital as well from high school.

AB: Yes.

FH: Who were those five people?

AB: Okay. Marian Schiller, God rest her soul. She died. Karen Hovie, Pat Mersch, Marlene Balmer and me.

FH: And what made you all decide that nursing was something you wanted to pursue?

AB: Well, you know, I really didn't know. My dad had been ill. And I took care of him off and on for a time. And my sister had gone into nursing school. She didn't stay very long. A couple of weeks and she was homesick and home. I thought well, that sounds like--at the time, there weren't many occupations open 00:11:00for ladies. Secretary, nurse, teacher were the most predominant things that were you know, not forced, but preferred by women. So I didn't want to be a teacher. I didn't want to be a secretary. But nursing appealed to me.

FH: Was it a popular career choice in your community? Sorry.

AB: It was. Yeah. I mean, our high school class was 160 or so people. And five of us went to the same nursing school. Others went to other nursing schools. And there were choices to be made. Fond du Lac had a, Saint Agnes had a nursing school. There were other choices. Even in Madison. But we kind of all were friends together, the five of us. And I don't know who was the one that first suggested Madison General. But we all considered it and thought well yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Let's all go. And we did.

FH: Was there anything about Madison General in particular that made it sound like a good idea to you all?

AB: You know, I can't really admit that there was anything that stood out about Madison General School of Nursing. I really can't. It felt good to be going with others who, well, we got along so well together. But no. I really didn't know anything about Madison General Hospital until the day of our interviews before we were accepted.

FH: And did you have any type of perception of nursing school in general before attending?

AB: I did. I did because my sister had been in for two weeks, you know. And I also had been a patient, I had appendicitis and had an appendectomy when I was seven years old. So I knew what the nuns had done for me at the hospital locally here. So I had an understanding of, and I was not a brilliant student, but I was 00:13:00a pretty good student. And chemistry and math were some of my favorite topics, my favorite classes to take. You've got to realize, you're talking to an eighty year-old lady here. So my memory may be (laughs) a little bit less sharp than it would have been about twenty years ago.

FH: No. So far, so great.

13:33

AB: But one of the things I remember about McConnell Hall especially is of course that was way before the time of mobile phones of any kind. So there was one phone on each of the floors where the students were staying. And it would ring. And the person who heard it would go answer it and then shout down the hall, "Is Linda Granger here?" "No, she's out." That was the way communication 00:14:00took place in terms of phone calls at that time.

Then there were stunts that were played. I remember one of the people put saran wrap type of thing between the toilet seat and the bowl. Oh, my. I mean, we had lots of fun. But it was lights off at ten. And you had, you had to be in by ten o'clock and in your room.

And I remember one of the gals had a nightingale lamp, a candle. And she was studying. And she had that lit. Because the housemother would come around and check under the doors to see if there were any lights on in the room. And then she'd knock and you'd be scolded because you were not in bed by ten o'clock.

And we had overnights occasionally to go home. And also, on the weekend, we 00:15:00could stay out until eleven o'clock. And if you got married, never get pregnant before, because if you were pregnant, you couldn't walk across the stage at graduation time.

FH: Wow.

AB: Yeah. So one of our girls got pregnant and we all had a, what you would call today a sit-in. And we required that she be allowed to walk across the stage. And as I recall, now, Mary Pautz has got a better recall on this than I do, probably. But as I recall, that worked and she did walk across the stage.

FH: Wow. Can you describe what that was like, the sit-in?

15:50

AB: Well, it's just that we--I don't know how to put this. We let our feelings be known that just because she was pregnant did not mean she didn't graduate, 00:16:00and why shouldn't she walk across the stage with us? You know, and we said that to the dean at the time of Madison General Hospital, whoever that was. I think it was, was it Miss Green? I'm not sure who it was now. But anyway, we let our opinions be known emphatically. And I believe that it worked and that she was able to go across the stage with us.

But graduating from nursing school at that time for my family was a big thing. My whole family was there. Well, my brother wasn't. He was in service at the time, in the navy. But all the rest of my family. My aunts and uncles who were alive at the time all came down. Oh, it was a big thing.

FH: And what did you do to celebrate?

AB: Well, there were gifts, you know. Graduation gifts. And then we all went out 00:17:00to eat together.

FH: And you mentioned that your brother was in the navy. What did he do after the navy?

AB: Did he do in the navy?

FH: What did he do after the navy?

AB: After the navy he got into the financial world. First of all for a credit union, and then into banking itself. And he retired as a vice president of the bank.

FH: Oh. And when you were growing--

AB: And very musically inclined. When he was in the navy, he was part of the navy band. And so after he got out, he was involved in many of the local bands around here that would play for dances and weddings and things like that.

FH: And you also had a sister. And those were your two siblings?

AB: No, and I also had an older brother. He died when he was only 63. But he 00:18:00stayed on the farm for the most part and helped there. And then when farming wasn't very reasonable anymore, he got a job as an implement salesman in a local implement store. For farm equipment.

FH: And did your parents manage the farm growing up?

AB: My parents did. They managed it very well. They lived through the recession back in the '30s. And I was so proud of my dad. Because he had a fourth grade education. He became treasurer of the town. He was treasurer of the cemetery board for the church that we belonged to. And he pulled himself up by the bootstraps. He was the one who said, "Anne, you can do anything you put your mind to. Just work at it."

FH: Was religion a big part of your life growing up?

AB: Was, I'm sorry, repeat that.

FH: I know you mentioned that after your mother passed away, that was a turning point when you joined the convent.

19:11

AB: Right.

FH: But was religion a big part of your life growing up?

AB: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. There was no staying home unless you were really, really sick. On Sunday, you went to mass. In fact, we had five a.m. mass. I mean, when I was a little, little kid, they would bundle me up even with my pajamas on yet and put the winter coats over the top. And I might sleep through the whole thing, but they took me to church every Sunday, that was for sure.

FH: How has that guided your experience in your nursing education and in your career?

AB: How has that guided? Well, you know, when you go to a hospital today if you're in Beaver Dam, they ask you what's important to you. That's one of the things that they ask. They even write it on the board. And I always say my 00:20:00faith, my family and my friends. And that's, even though my life has not been the saintly life I would have liked, I have converted back to being more religious than I had been for several years. I'm now a secular Carmelite, and I'm the treasurer for that organization, which has 64 members. I'm the treasurer of our alumni association. And I volunteer at the hospital here also. And that's been a very rewarding experience.

FH: I'd love to go deeper into that later about your volunteer experience in the hospital.

AB: Okay.

FH: But back to your life in Madison, when you first got here in 1960, what were 00:21:00your first--

AB: Well, actually it was in '57. We graduated in '60.

FH: I see. Thank you. So in 1957, what were your first impressions of Madison?

AB: First impressions were boy, this is a big city. A lot of traffic around. A lot of people. It was a college town, so there were so many things going on. And we had our classes, our non-nursing classes, at the University of Wisconsin. And we definitely walked there from McConnell Hall. I thought that was interesting. The only negative point about that whole thing is that these kinds of classes were labeled "microbiology for nurses," or "statistics for nurses." None of those courses counted when I went for my bachelor's degree. So I had to retake a 00:22:00lot of those courses in order to get my bachelor's degree.

FH: Do you remember how large your class was?

22:13

AB: You know, I thought of that today. I thought, I should look at my book. But I think it was around sixty.

FH: I see. And do you remember how many men were in your classes?

AB: There were none.

FH: None.

AB: None.

FH: So living in McConnell Hall, can you talk a bit more about that experience aside from those funny pranks you were mentioning earlier? (laughter)

AB: Yeah, well, usually there were two for a room. And we were assigned roommates. We didn't have choices to make. And you got to know the people very well. Some of them became close friends. Others, you know, we just kind of got along. There was no fighting that I can recall of any sort. We would, the 00:23:00classes were mostly right in the basement of McConnell Hall. One of the things that strikes me now is we did everything to each other before we were allowed to do it to a patient. Whereas that's giving enemas to each other, giving shots to each other, cooking a breakfast and feeding it to somebody. We did those things to each other.

And I remember one of my roommates giving the first injection. She put the needle right through the end of her thumb. (laughs) Oh, my. [unclear]

And then we would, after the first year, it was a three-year course and we had a month off sometime in that year. It depended upon our rotation to different 00:24:00hospitals or the Mendota State Mental Hospital, we went there. We went to the children's hospital in Milwaukee. Where else did we go? I don't know if we went anyplace else. I don't recall that.

But I remember my experience in Mendota was shocking, to be honest with you. They don't treat patients that way in mental hospitals today. But lots of things have changed.

I remember we used to make our own IV fluid. And we'd have Demerol tablets and we'd put them in the syringe and squash them and then draw up normal saline and shake it until it was dissolved. Now that's all prepackaged and premixed and everything.

And oh, when we were in the OR rotation, we would have to take the sponges that 00:25:00were used in surgery and have them laundered and then pull them apart and straighten them out and fold them up. And oh, the doctor's gloves, or the gloves that were worn during surgery, they would be laundered and washed and we would have to check to make sure there weren't any holes in the fingers anyplace. And powder them and put them back into sleeves so that they could be sanitized or sterilized. There was no disposals at that time. Everything was reused. Syringes and needles all were sterilized and reused over and over again.

FH: Were there other unusual methods or practices that you learned that might be considered unusual today, but at the time were considered acceptable?

25:48

AB: Oh, yeah. There used to be what they would call, what was the word they would use for it? Turpentine stoops. You heated up some turpentine solution. And 00:26:00you would put a coarse cloth with bits on either end. Kind of [dull steel lls?], I don't know how you pronounce it. But now you can get them in the store. They're round and smooth and all that. But anyway, you'd put them on either end of two hoops. And then you would put that in the hot water. And then you would pull it out. And you'd use the sticks on the end to twist it in opposite directions to get the most of the liquid off. And then you'd put a towel on the abdomen and put that turpentine stoop on it and cover it so that it would reduce the intestinal distention. I don't think anybody does anything like that today.

FH: Hmm. Wow. So going back to the rotations that you mentioned, can you talk a 00:27:00bit about your experience at Mendota Mental Hospital and why that was a different experience for you?

AB: Well, I think a lot of things. There were a lot of electroshock therapy things going on at that time, which is not used very much at all, if at all, today. And there were a lot of restraints at that time. People, the medications weren't as good as they are today. And people would get out of hand and they would have to be restrained to their bed, to their chair, wherever it was. And you know, that just, that was very uncomfortable to be in that situation. And I had never seen anything like that before.

We also worked at, we rotated to the veterans hospital for, and it was at a time when there was lots and lots of, oh, I can't think of the word now, isn't that 00:28:00terrible? The lung condition that people were isolated for. Isn't that stupid. Anyway, there was a lot of that situation. It's coming back a little bit now. You know what I'm talking about, don't you?

FH: Yeah. I can't think of the word either. We're in the same boat.

AB: (laughs) Thank you. That makes me feel a little bit better. But anyway, that was the majority of the reasons that the people were there. And they truly enjoyed student nurses. They truly enjoyed having us there. Let's see. And we were there with students from other nursing schools. From Methodist, from Saint Mary's, etcetera. And even out of Madison area, they would come there for their rotation. So it was good to get to know other students from other schools and to 00:29:00compare notes.

FH: Why do you think the veterans enjoyed having the students around?

AB: There was very little distraction for them at the time. Many of them didn't have any visitors. So part of our role was to entertain them. Sometimes we even did plays. Little skits and things to entertain them, to keep them happy. We didn't have much physical nursing to do, administer medications and do that kind of thing. It was more of a social cultural shift.

29:48

FH: And can you describe some of the nursing art skills that you learned? Such as drawing blood, or changing linens, giving baths, and so forth?

AB: Okay. Yeah. As I said before, before we could touch a patient, we had to do 00:30:00it to each other. So learning how to give a bed bath. At that time, part of the routine in the evening was to do back rubs. And we learned the different methods of back rubs. The Swedish pounding part and then the [unclear] different things. And it was a relaxing, caring thing for patients before they went to sleep at night. Then we practiced all that on each other.

We didn't have all the equipment now that they have for like drawing blood or whatever. We didn't do IVs as students. So the interns, etcetera, who were at the hospital did that experience. So what we did is we took the IV equipment, snuck it out of the hospital and took it back to the dorm and practiced getting IVs started on each other in the dorm. (laughter)

FH: Wow.

AB: Oh, yeah. Let's see. We had very good instructors. They were all nurses, excepting when we went to the University of Wisconsin, of course. They weren't. But the nursing arts people, Mrs. Sprecher, Mrs. Green was an OB at the time, I think. I don't remember all their names. But they were very good. And they stayed with us. I mean, they were with us on the floors and I think helped us just get over.

I remember one time my friend Marlene Balmer and I had just learned how to make post-op beds. And it was a certain way of doing it. So we were on the same floor at the same time. So we went up and down the hall. And any bed that was empty, 00:32:00we went in and made it a post-op bed, even though if a patient wasn't in surgery. Oh, we got such a scolding for that, too. (laughter) Oh, my.

I remember the bedpan equipment that we had. You took the bedpan that was used and you put it in a contraption that was going to flush it out. And then you would sterilize it by putting on steam to clean it. Well, one of the gals put it in and didn't flush it first and then steamed it. And it was a bedpan with BM in it. And there was no getting that BM out ever. So that was an experience that she had that she shared with us. (laughter)

FH: Wow. Can you talk a bit about the food in the hospital, in the dorm?

AB: Well, we didn't eat in the dorm. We went over to the cafeteria and ate there. There was a kitchenette in the dorm and you could, if you wanted to do something in that kitchenette. But it wasn't a well-equipped one. We normally would go over to the hospital and eat there. Once in a while we would go out to eat. Not very often. It was expensive. Or we'd order something in. And that was fun.

And we'd celebrate birthdays. There would be a tea, once a month there was a tea that we would all go to dressed in our nursing garb. As I recall, dressed in our nursing garb, and have tea and some scones or something like that to eat. And then we'd also have a tea when we passed from one year to the next. So we had a 00:34:00plain white cap as freshmen. And as we got into the second year, we would get a stripe, one thin stripe on it. Then two stripes in the third year. And then as we graduated, we'd get a wide stripe. A solid wide. So that was one of the things that we did.

There was one TV room, and we would gather to watch [unclear] whatever the sports things were, whether Super Bowl or the basketball games, we would watch them together in the one room where there was a TV.

FH: Were there other social or recreational activities that you and your friends were involved in?

34:49

AB: Yes. There were dances every once in a while that people would get dressed up for. And they would use, I'd guess it was classroom nine that we used at the time. I'm not positive on that. There was also an auditorium with a stage. And I 00:35:00don't know if that still exists in McConnell Hall or not. I really don't know. But we would have student nursing meetings from one hospital to another with each other's nursing schools. We would host them at McConnell Hall.

And of course, you know, we got to know some of the people from, not me, especially, but lots of other gals did, who knew people at the university. And they would be invited out to dances or frat parties, whatever, to go to those things, also.

FH: Did the nursing students organize the dance and the monthly tea? Or was that the nursing school?

AB: It was a combination. As I recall, we had officers of the classes. And they 00:36:00would be involved in planning with the house mothers and the nursing leaders there the events that were scheduled. And we had a choir, of course, that we'd get together and sing. It was fun.

FH: Were you in the choir?

AB: I was. I still am in my church choir. So I'm hanging on there.

FH: Wow. And you mentioned your house mother. Do you have any memories with her?

AB: I can't remember the names right now. Others are probably better at that. But they were all nice. I mean, they were nice ladies. And they were caring people. But they had their jobs to do, also, in terms of making sure that we were in on time and that we had our lights off at the time that we were supposed 00:37:00to have them off. They had their jobs to do. But they were nice ladies. One of them's name was Mrs. Cox. I remember that. But I don't remember all of them. And it would be a shame to pick her out when the others were just as nice.

FH: And what were your lecture classes like?

AB: Well, the student nurse, the nursing lectures occurred usually in the morning. And it was very difficult, especially when you worked nights the night before. It was difficult to stay awake and through those classes. I like the hands-on better than sitting in classrooms, to be honest with you. I know you have to learn both theory and then apply it. But it was hard after working nights to really pay attention to what was going on.

The other classes at the university, there were some that were relatively easy. Social studies was relatively easy. But things like statistics and microbiology I remember, microbiology was awful. Awful. And I do think it was the instructor more than anything. I got a 65 on the final exam. And he had to put it on a curve. I got a B in the course. And everybody just left that course and said I don't think I learned enough to even apply it. That was at the University of Wisconsin. There were evaluations for the instructors, and I don't think he got a very good one from anybody.

FH: Were there any other faculty who played an important role in your education?

AB: Well, you know, they all did. But I'm not so sure I can remember who was the 00:39:00most important, or who, I think Mrs. Sprecker. She taught on the medical floor, as I recall. And she was very good. She was very fair, very thorough. Well, all of our instructors were good. I really can't say that--we had an excellent education for nursing at that time. We had excellent instructors. And we felt prepared. I mean, when I worked here at Saint Joe's Hospital at the time, I felt I was as prepared as those who had graduated maybe four years before and had a lot of experience. I felt I was just as prepared as they were.

FH: Wow. Were there any particularly challenging aspects of your education?

40:07

AB: Well, I told you the microbiology one, which I mentioned. No, not really. To know exactly how to--well, there's one that was challenging. Now that I think of it, that's a good word to use. You know, when we were at the nurse's stations doing our notes and a doctor came into the station, you got up and gave him your chair. That was the culture of the time. They were the leaders. And there was no teamwork that was top-down kind of thing. It's much different today. I mean, doctors are just as happy today if you give a suggestion than anything. Whereas back then, the doctor was the main thing. And nursing was not considered a profession. It was just an art thing. That's changed a lot, is what I was going 00:41:00to say.

FH: How did that feel, as a nursing student?

AB: Well I would probably say that it didn't bother me at the time because when my older relatives would come and I was sitting on a chair, I'd get up and give them the chair. That was not a problem. But as I recall, some of our classmates said, "This isn't right. We've got work to do, too." But it didn't bother me at the time. But it certainly is a different culture than we have today.

FH: And what were your interactions like with other hospital staff who weren't your instructors?

AB: I don't think I had any negative interactions. There was one head nurse on second floor that was, she had been in the military. I think her name was Miss 00:42:00Nelson, I'm not positive about that. But she ran that floor with an iron glove. But she was good. I mean, if you did something that wasn't right, she told you. She'd put it on the line. But you know, then it was done. Now go do it right, you know? And you didn't feel like you were being chastised; you felt like you were being educated.

42:33

FH: And were there resources available outside of the classroom to help students if they needed it?

AB: Not like today. I remember we had Resusci Annie back then. We didn't have like the arms that they use today for practicing IV therapy or anything like that. But we did have Resusci Annie. We didn't have computers. So there was a 00:43:00library that we could go to. No, we had our own books. We bought our own books and everything.

FH: And how did you study?

AB: Usually, well, two ways. First of all, we would get together. Especially when we were studying anatomy and physiology, we would get together and practice on each other and quiz each other. Because all the different procedures, not procedures, oh, like the sagittal, the anterior, the posterior, the lateral, the medial, those words were all kind of new to us. Now they're just second place to anybody. But they were new to us in terms of talking about the anatomy. So we would get together and study like that. And it was good. We not only then 00:44:00learned from each other and with each other, but we became closer. We were from all over the state of Wisconsin. So we got to know lots of folks around and be friends with them and go home with them on weekends for long weekends or whatever. They'd come to my house. So that was nice. If they lived like up in Green Bay and it was a winter month or whatever, oh, come on over to Beaver Dam, it's a short drive and good roads. And they'd come home. It brought us closer together.

Living in McConnell Hall was something else. I don't know when, I think the last class was in '82. But I don't remember exactly when they didn't live together in McConnell Hall as students. And I think I see the difference when we have our 00:45:00annual meetings in May. The people who graduated towards the end of the school history didn't really come to the reunions. They really didn't know each other as well, having not lived in McConnell Hall together.

And so right now we are an old, an old organization. I am glad I have somebody who is interested in taking over the treasurer's position. But we are letting everybody know that unless candidates step up to the helm next year for president and secretary, we may have to fold the organization. In fact, we rewrote the bylaws maybe two years ago. And actually I was a project leader on that one. And put down the resolution of the organization and what would happen 00:46:00to any money we had and how it would take place according to Robert's Rules. You know, that sort of thing. So we put that right in our bylaws so that in the event as we're getting older and people aren't willing to take on the responsibilities, it might dissolve in a couple of years.

FH: Why is being part of the organization important to you?

46:30

AB: Well, I think because many of my classmates have become good friends. And to get together once a year or once every five years if we celebrate our anniversary dates in that way brought back lots of memories. We had good times. And so, yeah, for those reasons, we enjoyed keeping the organization together so that we had the social contacts that we enjoyed when we were students.

FH: And have you stayed in touch with your peers throughout your career?

AB: Pretty much so. I used to come home for reunions when I lived in New Jersey. Not every five years, but I would come to many of them. Because they were friends. It was good to see them.

FH: So now, going back to your rotations, you mentioned working at the Children's Hospital in Milwaukee for one of your rotations?

AB: Mm hmm.

FH: Do you want to talk a bit about that experience?

AB: That was very terrible. That was rough.

FH: Why?

AB: We did a lot of night rotations there. And that was one of the times when in the morning after you got finished with your rotations, actually the classes were held. But anyway, we had a lot of patients who need to have IV therapy. We 00:48:00didn't have to start the therapy, but we had to go in every fifteen minutes and check to make sure that the IV was still working well. And that was horribly hard to do. I mean, we'd have seven admissions within a couple of hours. And then set the IVs, etcetera, etcetera. And if you didn't record that you had checked it, even if it was two minutes late, oh, the supervisor on that shift would just chew you out, one end to the other. I know it was important. We all knew it was important. But we were in charge nights. And we had to take care of these kids, and we didn't have enough help. And what was so bad is that the lady who was the one that hounded us the worst, I think a year after we had our experience there, she was the nurse on duty. And she had a patient, a young 00:49:00child die, that had an IV in and she hadn't seen it for two hours.

FH: Oh, wow.

AB: Yeah. That was, I mean, I knew the terror and attention that you are under when you have all these patients and you have to see each one every fifteen minutes. And oh, my. But I think she understood then that it was very hard for students who were unsure of some of the things to be able to be Johnny on the spot every fifteen minutes to check each of the IVs. It was terrible. It was a learning experience, but not very good, I didn't [cherish?] in my mind.

FH: And how did you bring that learning experience with you in your career?

AB: Well, I rarely worked in pediatrics. So that was something, as a director of 00:50:00nursing, of course, I was over that. But not hands on here. But realizing how work can be, it's calm one moment and just unbelievable the next, helped me to see that you can't expect 100 percent, 100 percent of the time. That things happen. Not that you don't want it to be 100 percent. But you just cannot control everything that's going on. If somebody has a code, obviously you're going to be with that person. And even though you had another [unclear] to give out someplace else on the floor, you have to be with the code person, not someplace else. So I think it helped me to understand essentially that kind of thing, and how to, to be empathetic and sympathetic, but yet let's see how we can make this not happen in the future.

And I think probably, I think probably I enjoyed my role in the administrative part because I could understand the concerns and the challenges that faced the nurses who were working.

FH: I'm sorry to interrupt, Anne, but the phone is sounding a little fuzzy on my end.

AB: Okay.

FH: Oh, that sounds better.

AB: Okay. I just moved it down a little bit.

FH: Oh, perfect. Thank you. Sorry to interrupt.

AB: No, that's all right. I think I was finished with that thought. I enjoyed all of the roles that I had as a nurse, as a staff nurse. When I first became a nurse here in Beaver Dam after graduation, I worked nights. And if a patient came to the ER, I got a phone call. "Go to the ER, Miss Budde. And get it open 00:52:00and take care of the patient that's coming in." Or if somebody came in for OB, there was a nun who was an anesthetist. She would be up there. And there were people on the post-partum unit. But I would be the one to go into the delivery room. And I didn't feel quite prepared to be the charge nurse in the delivery room at the time. When I worked on the medical floor. (laughs) But that's the way it was back in those days. They didn't have, even the regulations that exist today in terms of nurse/patient ratio and those kinds of things didn't exist back then. But now things are for the good of the patient, hopefully, for the most part. And those things are not tolerated.

FH: During your training, what was your relationship like with patients?

AB: Oh, well, let's see. How can I describe that? Well, we were always told that 00:53:00we needed to be professional at all times. And no getting really friendly with the patients. But to be professional at all times. Not to ever accept any gratitude in terms of items or money or anything like that. I mean that was no, absolutely not. And I think they're still that way today, for the most part. But we were not encouraged to become as friendly as I see it now happening in the hospitals. We had professional ethics that we went through. And that was how to be a professional nurse, even though we weren't considered a profession by many 00:54:00people at that time.

FH: What do you think the difference today means for patient/nurse relations?

54:12

AB: Well, I was recently in the hospital myself. And it was more of a personal kind of thing. Like one of the nurses who took care of me told me that her grandmother, her mother, who is now in her eighties, had been a nurse and went to nursing school. And she and I talked about what it was like back then as compared to how it is now when a student goes into nursing. So we talked a lot about that. We had a good time. She was personal, and yet also she was professional.

FH: What do you think makes a good nurse?

AB: Well, I think there is a caring, a compassion, and a real dedication to the 00:55:00profession. Learning as much as you can in how to help people. And being part of a team. You know, the respiratory therapist has a role to play. And we should communicate with them and make sure that the patient is the key reason why we're talking together and how we can help that person. So I think that they have to be intelligent in their field and compassionate and caring. But there's lots more opportunities today in the nursing field than there were back then. I mean, you can become a nurse practitioner or you can work in industry. You can work all over the place and there's a role for home healthcare as well as hospital nursing. But there weren't too many choices back then. It was either home 00:56:00healthcare or hospital nursing. All the other spinoffs, like utilization review and case management and etcetera, which are all good things, but that was not part of our vocabulary back then.

FH: Are there other moments of your time at Madison General Hospital that stand out to you?

AB: Not really. I mean, there are so many that I don't know how to crystallize it. It was a growing experience for all of us. It was many times the first time we were away from home. And so that was growing, it was becoming, living without parental overcasting, so to speak. House mothers kind of fit in to keep us on 00:57:00track a little bit. But we were independent of our families for the first time, probably, for the majority of us. So that was kind of a challenge, a learning experience, how to really do that growing up like that. And I appreciated that. I just, I think I appreciated the fact that our culture back then was such that we were able to get close to each other in friendship as well as close to each other in learning of different profession. That was important. And I think in some ways without having McConnell Hall as a home base, a lot of things are lost for the students these days.

FH: I know you said earlier that your mother passed away while you were a 00:58:00student. If you don't mind talking about this, what was it like losing a parent during the program?

58:15

AB: It was very difficult. As I said, our local hospital then was Saint Joe's Hospital. And they were very strict on when visiting hours were. And on the day that she died, my dad was all dressed--you know, you didn't go in jeans then when you went to the hospital to visit somebody--all dressed in his suit waiting for eleven o'clock to come so that he could go up and visit Mom. I wasn't home at the time. I was actually working with a breast cancer patient on second floor at Madison General. And that's what my mother had, too.

And while he was waiting, the phone rang and it was the nun at the desk saying, 00:59:00"We thought you'd like to know that your wife just passed away." That was not, and I think I am quoting the words exactly as they were said. That was a very, very difficult time. It was as if we weren't interested in being with her. I mean, my dad, and it was very hard. It was hard on me.

And then what happened was, the call came over to McConnell Hall. And the instructor came and told me that I needed to go home. And two of my friends drove me home and stayed with me for a while. It was a hard time. (crying) I'm sorry. I didn't mean to--

FH: No, I'm sorry. Thank you for opening up about that. And if you need a 01:00:00moment, please don't hesitate to ask.

AB: Okay. So that was a learning experience, also, on how to deal with families of patients who were terminally ill and have died. So everything in life can be a learning experience after you've been through it if you really consider it.

FH: It's a really important outlook to have.

AB: Yeah. Yes. So how about you? I know you're supposed to interview me, but you know, we've been talking for an hour now. And how many have you interviewed? And I'm sure they've been much better than mine.

FH: No. (laughs) They've all been great, and this has been great. At this point, I think we're close to twenty people.

AB: Oh, okay.

FH: And I haven't interviewed all of them. But it's been amazing to hear about all the experiences.

AB: Yeah. I wish we could have had a group interview.

FH: Oh, yeah. I'm sure you would have bounced some ideas.

AB: Oh, then one person's thought would spur another one's thought. Yeah, it could have gone on for an hour and a half, [unclear] an hour. But, anyway. So, do you have all the information you need? Or is there any question that I haven't really responded to well?

FH: They've all been great. If you want to talk a bit more about your life after school. I know we touched on the places that you worked in the beginning of the interview. But maybe we can go through those, if you're feeling willing to?

AB: Sure. Okay. Go ahead.

FH: So after you graduated, you made the decision to join the convent?

AB: Yeah. It was a year after I graduated. After I had worked at Saint Joe's 01:02:00Hospital with the nuns there. I joined the convent that was staffing the hospital at the time.

FH: And you mentioned earlier when you were talking about the psychiatric place where you were assigned that it became apparent that it wasn't that type of mode anymore.

AB: Right.

FH: Why was that?

AB: Well, you didn't use the shocking therapy like first putting ice water on somebody then hot water. That was trying to break them down so that they would get out of whatever their psychiatric event was at the moment. And that was no longer gold. I mean, that was, I think, Sacred Heart Sanitarium in Milwaukee was one of the last vestiges of that sort of therapy in the United States. So it was 01:03:00a decision made by both the nuns at the hospital and the mother house to convert to something that was more meaningful for the patients. It was quite an opportunity for me to become a teacher in terms of teaching the staff, the current staff there, how to do rehab nursing as opposed to the sanitarium type of care they had given before. It converted the sanitarium to a rehab hospital. And between the physiatrist and me, that's how we did it. The two of us. That was a good experience for me to do that.

FH: And then what did you do after that? You went to Milwaukee or you were in--

AB: Yeah. I was in Milwaukee at that time.

FH: Okay. And that's when you were--

AB: That's when I was in the convent. And then after I left the convent, I went to work in other hospitals. I went to Saint Luke's for a while. That's a pretty big hospital in Milwaukee. And then Mount Sinai in Milwaukee. I was three to eleven supervisor at Mount Sinai. Also had worked in in-service education there. Then I got into nursing administration, and then hospital administration.

Every time I left a place, there was always a big party thanking me for what I had done or had contributed to that institution. When I left my last employment, they had, they invited people to come to a party and there were over two hundred people that came to wish me well as I was going to retire from healthcare.

FH: Wow. You must have impacted a lot of people who you worked with.

1:05:12

AB: Yeah. I did have a very good reputation of being kind. I made it a point to know the people that worked at the hospital. Their family, what their problems were, how we could assist them in understand if they had a call because their kid was sick or something like that.

When I left one of the hospitals, this actually was South Jersey Healthcare. When I left, one of the people stood up and said they had never had somebody who was in a higher position in the hospital remember as many people's names and the names of their kids as I did. And who were able to understand them. And I thought to myself, that was a nice thing to say. I really did care about 01:06:00everybody that I worked with.

FH: And how long did you work until you retired?

AB: Well, I wasn't a very good retirement student. I retired from general hospital nursing. And within, I don't know, maybe five months, my old boss who now was chairman of the board of a rehab hospital that had just opened, called me and said, "I've got just the job for you." And part of my responsibilities in my career were to take care of quality and risk management. Those were things that I kind of specialized in. He said, "We've got a position here. The gal is leaving, going to California. She's only working part time. It would be a beautiful job for you. Come on, let's get you interviewed by the CEO."

So I went over and I took the job. And it was not part time. It was fulltime. 01:07:00What the lady had done, she worked at a different rehab hospital. So she took their policies and procedures and converted it to, what was it called, Rehab Hospital of South Jersey. But she just changed the titles, the names of the institution. But didn't conform it to the institution. In some of the policies, it would say about the basement and the third floor and the elevator. Well, there were none of those things. So all of the policies and procedures had to be done over. And that was my first exposure. I didn't stay there real long.

Another time, I think I started in March and I retired the next time in January of the following year. But I got it all back into order and got quality spruced up.

And then another time I was called back because joint commission was going to 01:08:00come in. our hospital had merged three other hospitals into one South Jersey hospital. So we needed to conform all of the policies and procedures. Like nurses could be rotated from one hospital to another. And yet the crash carts weren't the same from one hospital to the other. So if they needed epinephrine or some other medication, which drawer is it in in this hospital? So one of the first things I did was to standardize the critical care elements in a crash cart and that sort of thing.

And I stayed there until the day after the joint commission had come. There was just one of the hospitals that needed to be reviewed. And that's the one that I got called in to help with. And before they left, they said, "We're not supposed 01:09:00to tell you this, but you did a 98 out of 100." So those were fun times. They were challenging but, you know, they were worthwhile.

FH: And did you ever continue on with your education? I know you mentioned getting a bachelor's.

1:09:21

AB: I did. I got a master's degree from University of Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia.

FH: When was that?

AB: That was in '78.

FH: And you mentioned when you were in Bridgeton, New Jersey, that you took over as vice president?

AB: Yeah. Right. One of, the vice president who was in charge of administration, I was vice president nursing, he was vice president administration. He suddenly died. And so the board said, "Why don't we just have Anne take over?" So they made me go to someplace in Philadelphia to, I don't know, a specialist who did 01:10:00interviews to see if I had the qualities to take on that kind of position. That was one of the things that one of the board members said we need to do that. If she passes them, then she's our girl. And so I went. And they wanted to hire me. (laughs) So they wrote that in their review. So then that's how I got into administration in the hospital, over hospital items instead of just nursing.

FH: Are there any memorable moments in your career that you'd like to tell me about?

AB: Well, some are good memories and some are bad. I remember we had, one of the hospitals I was at early on in my career, not the local one here. But we had a 01:11:00very bad review by the state Department of Health. And in the OR they found that some of the sterile equipment that they opened up, they could see crusted blood on them. Oh, there were all kinds of policies that were not up to conformance and so forth. And so the director of OR nursing was so upset, she resigned. And I accepted her resignation. And I was hiring, advertising for somebody to replace her. I didn't feel anybody currently employed at the place was good enough to step into that role. So I found somebody who had the right experience, excellent references, was in the surgical department as an assistant and hired her. And it got to be known that I hired somebody.

Well, one day, all of the OR staff called out sick. And so I called the 01:12:00supervisors from all the shifts and the in-service education people. And my assistant and I, we went back and manned the OR for the day. (laughs) That was a memorable experience because we did all the cases and there was no problem. But it was also front page news in the local newspaper. So that was memorable in more ways than one.

But the positive things, yeah. Converting the sanitarium into a rehab hospital was a very positive thing in my career. Becoming director of nursing and interacting with the other departments in the form of a leader, was exciting. It 01:13:00was, I found it was challenging, but it was exciting challenging. It was fun to learn and to move on into new areas.

I think probably the other memorable thing was when we got a 98 from the joint commission, and that they even told us that before they left. "We're not supposed to tell you, but I'm telling you that this was one of the best hospitals we've ever reviewed." So that was good.

But you know, the fact of graduating from a three-year diploma school and having all the experiences in my life that I've had, has made me a fuller person. I mean yeah, I've made some poor choices over time. But that's okay. If you learn from it and you don't repeat it--in the same way, anyway (laughs) --then it was a worthwhile experience.

And you know what? We've talked for an hour and fifteen minutes.

FH: We have. But if you have other things to mention, or some other notable moments in your career, I'm happy to keep listening. But I also don't want to keep you. We can also always schedule a follow-up if that's necessary, too.

AB: Well, I think I've pretty much said everything.

FH: Okay. My last question then. What advice would you give to future nursing students?

AB: Oh, boy, that's a good one. That's a good one, because things are so different today than they were back then. But you keep an open mind. To be realistic about what you can accomplish within a certain period of time. To put your heart and soul into it. Not just for the bucks you think you might be able to earn, but to really be involved in learning what you need to know in order to be the best person you can be as a nurse.

FH: That's great. Well, unless there's anything else you'd like to add--

AB: I think we're finished.

FH: All right. Thank you so much, Anne. I'll turn the recorder off, but then maybe we can chat quickly after.

AB: Okay.

FH: Okay, thank you so much.

AB: You're welcome.

75:17

[End Interview.]