Interview with Judy Eckblad

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1964

ECKBLAD, JUDY

ECKBLAD, JUDY (1948-)

Interviewed: 2020

Interviewer: Faith Hoffmeyer

Index by: Sophie Clark

Transcribed by: Teresa Bergen

Length: 73 minutes

First Interview Session (April 22, 2020): Digital File

00:00:00

FH: Okay. So today is Friday, April twenty-second. My name is Faith Hoffmeyer. And this is a phone interview for the Madison General Hospital School of Nursing Oral History Project with Judy Eckblad. Judy, can you please spell your first and last name for an audio check?

JE: Sure. It's April twenty-fourth.

FH: Is it? (laughs)

JE: And my name is Judy, J-u-d-y. Last name Eckblad. E-c-k-b-l-a-d. Eckblad.

FH: Thank you so much. Sorry about the date mix up.

JE: It's okay. We were going to do it on a different day.

FH: I see. So to begin. Could you tell me a bit about where you grew up?

JE: Oh! Well, I didn't prepare for that. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I grew up in Illinois. The name of the town was Kempton, Illinois. It's a small rural community in Illinois about ninety miles south of Chicago. And I grew up on a 00:01:00farm. One of eight children. I was the third child. And went to high school and participated in all kinds of activities, from chores on the farm to cheerleading. Girls' sports was not a thing back then. And went directly from Kempton farm to my nursing school in Joliet called Silver Cross Hospital School of Nursing. I graduated in 1966 from high school.

FH: And what did your parents do?

JE: My dad was a dairy farmer. My mom was a housewife, as we had eight kids in our family. So she had quite a bit to do.

FH: I can imagine.

JE: From gardening to canning to sewing. She made many of our dresses for dances 00:02:00and church and things like that. And my dad had dairy cattle, Holsteins. But we also had many other animals. We had pigs and chickens and sheep. And he farmed along with two of his brothers.

FH: Did anything in your background guide you towards a nursing career?

JE: That's a great question. I was a good student in high school. But when I was young, there was no family illness or things like that. Nobody else was a nurse in the family. But I always thought, you know, people worried when they were in high school, what am I going to be when I grow up? And I don't know, really, how 00:03:00I knew it, but I knew I'd be a nurse. I always did. So they were all having anxious high school moments about where am I going to go to school and what am I going to be? And I didn't have that at all. I knew I'd be a nurse.

I know that my Uncle Sam go hurt by, on the farm, there's accidents. And he got into an altercation with a bull and he really injured his shoulder and had some significant wounds that I got to help put the dressings on. And it was just a thrill in my life to help put Band-Aids on him. And it wasn't Band-Aids, it was really gauze dressings and wrap. So maybe that was an influence. I don't know.

FH: Was nursing a popular career choice in your community?

JE: Nursing a popular career? Of my graduating class of twenty-one students in 00:04:00my high school graduation class, two of us became nurses. My cousin the year before had graduated and she was in a nursing program. But the only influence, really, I had towards nursing then was my cousin who was just one year ahead of me. Back in the '60s, they joke about it, but it was true, that there were three careers for women, choices. You could become a nurse. You could become a teacher. Or you could become a secretary. If you were going to work. Otherwise, you were going to be a married lady at home taking care of your family.

FH: And where did you--oh, I'm sorry.

JE: What?

FH: Sorry, I didn't realize--were you adding anything after that?

JE: I couldn't hear your question.

FH: Oh, I'm sorry. Here, let me adjust the microphone a little bit. Okay. Where did your cousin attend nursing school?

JE: She went to nursing school in Peoria, Illinois. I think it was Saint Francis.

FH: And then where did you attend?

JE: I went to nursing school. It was a two-year diploma program in Joliet, Illinois called Silver Cross School of Nursing.

FH: And what years did you attend?

JE: I started in the fall of '66 and graduated two years later, '68.

FH: And what prompted you to attend this particular school?

00:05:53

JE: I think that it was nearby. Joliet was only less than sixty miles from home. 00:06:00It was affordable. And it was a short program, two-year program. Many of my co-teachers went initially to a baccalaureate program. I went to the diploma program because it was affordable, nearby and had a good reputation.

FH: And how was your experience here?

JE: How was my experience what?

FH: How was your experience at Silver Cross?

JE: Oh, at Silver Cross? I think that, it was wonderful. I mean, it was hard. We did not have summers off. We went twenty-four months straightaway. We had Christmas break and things like that, but we didn't have any breaks in our education to sort of relax and be young women. But my program was good. I think 00:07:00that really it was quite similar to the Madison General program in that we had college courses that we had to take along with our nursing courses. We had a lot, we had clinicals in the hospital. And then we also had a rotation where we went to Chicago. We had out places that we went. So we went to the Hines VA Hospital so that we had some psychiatric experience. That was in Chicago. But I felt the instructors were invested in us and the curriculum was solid. That we had OR experience, pediatric experience, med-surg experience.

So I liked it and whether it's college or high school, you make lifelong 00:08:00friends. So I have lifelong friends from nursing school. And living in the dormitory, I think, helps set the stage for that, too. But I'm--

FH: And what did you do--I'm sorry.

JE: So I liked nursing school. What did I what?

FH: What did you do after graduation?

JE: I graduated and because there was even then federal money available to help repay tuition, because the big thing now is student tuition, school loans, things like that. So there was a program that if you worked for the state of Illinois, you could, or in certain facilities that qualified, you could get part of your school loans forgiven. And so I went from nursing school along with a 00:09:00friend from nursing school, we went to Chicago. And I got a job at Illinois State Psychiatric Hospital so that I could help--

FH: Judy, do you mind if I, I'm so sorry, do you mind if I pause quickly? It seems like there's a trash pickup and it's really loud. So I'm just going to pause so I don't miss any of what you're saying. [pause] Okay? The garbage truck has left and we can continue on with the interview. Sorry about that, Judy.

JE: Thank you.

FH: So we were talking about your nursing education, Silver Cross. And we were talking about your overall experience. And do you mind me asking if any of the faculty at Silver Cross impacted how you went into teaching?

JE: I think that two reasons that I went into teaching in the end, honestly, when I was in nursing school, there was also another loan available to me if I decided that I would commit to being a teacher. Because I know that there are federal grants, or have been, that if you are going to become that you can get additional funding. I did not take advantage of it because I was pretty sure that I did not want to be a teacher. Because I loved bedside care. And so I did not want to be a teacher. Which is crazy, because I have almost my entire career has been teaching. From the diploma program to then when the School of Nursing closed after my ten years experience teaching there, then I eventually ended up 00:11:00in staff education, in-service education at Madison General Hospital for many, many years.

But I did, you always have little role models in your mind about teaching. And I had some very good teachers that I admired. But I can't remember their names right now. Very sad.

00:11:34

FH: And what did you do after graduation of the diploma program?

JE: I went, there was a program, one of the counselors at, one of the counselors at the School of Nursing actually geared me towards moving and helping me move 00:12:00from the diploma program to do my one-year commitment for tuition reimbursement and then to apply to Saint Mary's Hospital in Madison, Wisconsin, to become one of their student nurse, maybe it was a fellowship. I don't know what it was called. But I went from Chicago, one year in Chicago as a psychiatric nurse, then I moved up to Madison. And it was a program where you worked, lived in the dormitory, and you worked for Saint Mary's a couple of days every two weeks and took courses at the university. And with that program, then I got my bachelor's degree from UW Madison. So I was very lucky to be able to go into that program 00:13:00because I had housing, I had money, and I had food. (laughs) All Maslow's basic needs taken care of. And I meanwhile had lots of clinical experience working in those shifts. Because I only had to work one and a half shifts every two weeks to pay the tuition and housing part, to repay Saint Mary's. And then if I worked an additional shift or two during breaks or whatever, then that was extra money. So not only was Maslow happy with all of my basics taken care of, I actually had so much expendable income, I was like, I was so happy. (laughs) That was a 00:14:00wonderful program.

FH: That's great.

JE: Yeah.

FH: What were your first impressions of Madison?

JE: Well, my first impressions of Madison, my history, I grew up on a farm, a rural community. And then when I went to Joliet to school I thought wow, I'm in the, you know, this is a big city. And then I went to Chicago and I was like, no, this is a big. And then when I came from Chicago to Madison, I thought hmm, it's going to be another big city like Chicago. So my first impression of Madison was it was beautiful. And I was young. And the bars closed way too early. (laughs) Because I was single and would like to go out with friends. And with night nurses, you work late shifts. And so we'd often go out for drinks 00:15:00after, at one AM, two AM, something like that. But not in Madison.

My first driving experience was the, and I had driven for years and years, but in Madison, was getting caught in the square. The circle of streets that form around the Capitol. And I went around about three times before I got off on the street I really needed to get off on. Because I had never seen such a roundabout. (FH laughs)

I had a dormitory room at Saint Mary's, so it was right near the zoo and Vilas Park and the beach. So it's a great town. I loved it. I love the hills of 00:16:00Wisconsin. Where I grew up in Illinois, it was pretty flat.

FH: And what did you get your bachelor's degree in, in UW Madison?

JE: UW Madison. The Saint Mary's program had that affiliation if you worked for them, you could take UW courses. So I got my bachelor's degree at here, UW Madison campus. And I already was a nurse. So it was, I think a lot of the nursing programs are how do you help, it used to be how do you help an LPN, licensed practical nurse, get to be an RN. And now it's how do you get a diploma nurse, or an aide, and there's hardly any going to school at this point, but there still are, how do you get a two-year grad from a technical college to get 00:17:00them to a bachelor's degree, a professional nurse. But my program was at the UW. And because I already had an RN, I was in a special curriculum program that UW had that allowed you to take the credits and the information that you had from being a grad and then take the extra courses you needed to to get your BS. So, but I went to UW Madison.

00:17:41

FH: And did you enjoy the classes there?

JE: I did. I did enjoy them. And I really, what I enjoyed about it was meeting, I was an off campus student. So my previous experience was where you would live 00:18:00on campus and really bond with other classmates and all these lovely study groups, and intense clinicals. And then as a BSN reach program, the RN returning program, it was really like, it was interesting because it was a very different experience. I went to classes and then went back to my dormitory, where I lived, and worked at Saint Mary's. And I went to another class. I was really quite independent from other students. So it was a different educational experience than what I'd been used to. But I loved my classes because the UW School of Nursing really paid attention to previous experience of the nurses. And helped design clinicals. We really only had to do a couple of clinicals and coursework 00:19:00that would help us complete our educational requirements to get our bachelor's degree.

FH: And after you graduated and finished the Saint Mary's program, what did you do next?

JE: I had continued to work while I was a student. So I took a staff position at Saint Mary's and worked there for I think a year or so. And of course as a new grad, what shift do you get to work? The new grads get to work the night shift. (laughs) So, I worked the night shift. Which is great experience. But not where I wanted to live my life.

And so when Madison General offered some openings, I thought, perfect. Perfect, 00:20:00perfect. And I went and interviewed and got to teach right as soon as I graduated, really. I was able to after a short stint of med-surg nursing. And I took my first teaching job at Madison General.

It was interesting when I showed up for my interview. I was, this was really '72 is when I was hired. But in the '70s, miniskirts were popular. And I actually wore miniskirts as a teacher. (laughter) Had long hair and John Lennon glasses. I had almost, you know, not quite waist-length, but very long hair. But when I 00:21:00went for my interview with Miss Alice Schmitt, who was the director of the School of Nursing, I was met by the reception staff in the dormitory. And they gave me a health form to fill out. And I thought why am I filling out a health form here? I had to answer these questions about chickenpox and other things. And it was, they thought I was a student and that's why I was--I was very young. (laughter) So they thought I was a student nurse applying.

But I got the job, which was exciting. And so I think I began in January. No, '72, so I began in the fall. So I was actually then taught at Madison General for ten years. From '72 and then we closed in '82.

00:22:03

FH: And do you remember what your first day of teaching felt like?

JE: I totally do not. I was a novice instructor. And so I am sure that I had lots of flutters about how was I going to do this. But I was also an assistant instructor. So there was a lead instructor who would really lay out the curriculum for us. So as an instructor it was pretty straightforward what you were going to teach. What was the content. You didn't have to develop lesson plans so much. But you had to be the guiding presence in the classroom. And I was hired into the track that was med-surg. It was med-surg. The courses were 00:23:00really divided up into nursing med-surg 2, med-surg 1, introduction or fundamental. And those are the kinds of classes I taught.

So I thought it was fun teaching because I had students who were learning how to even handle a blood pressure cuff. Right now when you come into nursing school in 2020, they encourage or require that nursing students have completed nursing assistant training. So they already know how to take blood pressures and give baths and wrap an Ace wrap. But then, no. Students were out of high school. Then 00:24:00they took one year of college credits. And then they came to our program. And so how to handle a blood pressure cuff was very foreign. How to get the stethoscope to work. So it was fun teaching even those very basic things, and watching the lights turn on in people's head like oh, that's how you do it!

FH: How would you describe your style of teaching?

JE: How I would describe my style is maybe different than how other people describe my style. Because I really believed I was encouraging, asking questions, trying to have students generate the answer rather than tell them the answer. Supportive. And they have the experience for both sides. I had a 00:25:00student, I still am in contact with many students. One of my students recently on Facebook wrote, because now with the coronavirus issue, handwashing is a big deal. Well, handwashing was one of the early lessons that we taught people in nursing school. And the student recently said to me on Facebook, "Judy, remember when you failed me on handwashing?" (laughter) And how do I remember in 1980, standing from the view of 2020, failing her? But she remembered. So I don't know the impression that she wrote was, "I appreciated that you did. And I came back 00:26:00the next day and I was successful." So I liked to celebrate students' successes.

FH: Were there any other particular students that impacted you during your time at Madison General?

JE: I don't know about a student that impressed me. One thing that globally impressed me about the students is that they also had a commitment to nursing. So when they made their decision to go to nursing school, they were all in. They studied, they worked hard. They were Wisconsin work ethic. You know, very positive energy level about that.

I was also a, during the time people rotated who was the advisor to the student 00:27:00nurse association group or other things. And we all had various students that we were peer supports, not peer supports, but faculty connections. Whether they were maybe called faculty advisors, but I don't think that was the term. And I remember a couple of students who did not know what they wanted to be, that they went into nursing because their mom was a nurse, their aunt was a nurse, everybody's sister was a nurse. And here they were in nursing school. And so part of the first six months to even a year in nursing school they had to deal with do I really want to be a nurse when I grow up. And so when a couple of them decided no, they didn't, they were going to withdraw from the program, I could 00:28:00just see the weight lift off their shoulders. Because they finally decided no, that was not the path for them.

So as far as students who made impressions on me, they all did in little ways. But I really appreciated their energy and commitment and balancing of life. Because we actually had students who were married, students who had children. Every student we had was not the 19 year-old right out of high school and college. Some of them had actually gone on and done other things in their life and then went to the diploma program.

But a good experience overall. Mostly women. We only had a couple of male students in each of our classes. But male nursing was a coming thing then as well.

FH: And how long were you an assistant instructor until you became an instructor on your own?

29:19

JE: How long was I an instructor before what?

FH: I'm sorry. An assistant instructor. Before you were leading the classes.

JE: Hmm, no, I was never a lead instructor on any of it, I don't think. I don't remember the titles. Except at the end, I think by the end I was lead instructor for a couple of classes. But it was years, probably. Because we had high faculty-student ratio. And our clinical ratios on the unit were never more than six students to a faculty. Where nowadays the numbers are much higher. They're 00:30:00up to eight, I think. And so my niche there was an assistant instructor. And then we had people who had worked there for years and years, and they were the lead instructor. So I don't really, I don't know that answer.

FH: What was your favorite thing to teach?

JE: Hmm. I loved the fundamentals course, the intro course, where people transitioned, as I said earlier, they didn't even know how to pronounce or spell sphygmomanometer. Where they learned hands-on skills. I loved the lab for that where we learned how to do, how does a sump pump work, how does a test tube work? So the skills part. And I don't remember doing a lot of lectures. But I 00:31:00probably did. But the other piece that I liked, so I liked the lab section. And back then, we didn't have the robotic students that exist today. But we did have the great big mannequin, and her name was Mrs. Chase. All of our patients were Mrs. Smith or Mrs. Chase or Mrs. So and So. That's how you addressed your patient. So Mrs. Chase was our big mannequin that we could use for learning how to position patients or put on oxygen or put a feeding tube in or practice various clinical skills.

My other part, besides laboratory skills, then the part I really liked was the 00:32:00clinical unit where you actually had your patient, as a faculty member we would approach all the patients for permission for a student nurse to take care of them and then supervise that care. So I loved the clinical part of it.

FH: What was that like, being the mediator between the patients and the students?

JE: It was good. It was good. Because the patients were grateful to have their own quote "private duty" nurse. (laughs) So patients really appreciated the student nurse and tolerated some of their awkwardness, their clunkiness. But they were very open to having students. So it was great. We could then have the 00:33:00student have, the patient was happy. And the student was able to feel successful with their clinical day. They had difficult patients sometimes. But again, my experience was in the medical surgical, post-operative type patients. We had other faculty who were OR instructors or psych instructors or different specialties. But where I was, the patients were pretty healthy. It wasn't rehab. They were coming in for a problem, getting it fixed, and the student nurse was there to facilitate care. And then after the students had delivered care, at the end of the day, then I would make rounds on all the patients to see how it 00:34:00worked out. What their impression, without the student nurse present. And again, a positive experience. Patients had the right to say no, I don't want to have a student nurse. But most of them, 95 percent for sure, said yeah.

FH: How did you evaluate the students?

34:27

JE: How did we evaluate them, based on preparation. They got their assignments the day before. So they always before clinical, they had spent time researching diagnoses for procedures. Potential indications of complications, potentially. And preparing their medication lists. And so first we had to make our assignment and pick an assignment that was appropriate so that one student didn't have in 00:35:00their rotation only patients with fractured legs. They had to have a variety of different kinds of experiences.

And then we evaluated them on their clinical demeanor, on their knowledge when we would interview them about questions. What is this medication for? What are the potential side effects? And then they had to do paperwork. They had to do these infamous care plans, where I think a lot of students would have said, oh my goodness. (laughter) So both on paper and knowledge, then their interaction style, being respectful.

FH: Did you have a least favorite thing to teach?

JE: That's a good question. And I didn't even think about that before. I don't 00:36:00know. I don't know. I was happy that I was in the rotations I was in teaching. I was glad that I didn't have to teach OR nursing, because I didn't have any experience in OR except my own nursing school experience. I was glad I was not the OB instructor or the pediatric instructor because again, I didn't have those experiences. So med-surg was a perfect match for me. I can't recall any that I did not like to teach.

FH: Were there any practices or methods that you taught that might be considered unusual today because of the time period?

JE: Well, that is a good question, because times do change. Hmm. We used, the 00:37:00kind of equipment was very different. When you go to third world countries lots of times they have IVs, fluids in glass bottles. Or they recycle equipment. We didn't recycle. But our IVs were in glass bottles. All of our IVs. Not just albumen or other specific products. So how you would pierce an IV bottle. You had to have strength to pierce through that rubber stopper with IV tubing. How you did chest tubes was different. Instead of a plastic disposable Pleur-evac with big chambers in it, we had three glass bottles arranged on a cart to create that same function. So I do believe we actually had to sharpen some IM needle 00:38:00injections, needle things. And we learned how to use the sterilizer. But I'm not so old that we had to prepare meals for patients. (laughter) We didn't have to do that. We had a dietary department.

So from equipment. And then in the world of traction, I don't even know if they do traction anymore. But we had big ropes and pulleys on our patients' beds to provide traction for their legs. And so you had to be very careful walking around the bed not to bump the sandbag that was creating the weight, because it would totally translate right to the patient and their fractured limb. But those 00:39:00are the things that seem antiquated to me.

The other piece of equipment that's very nice today is the magic of the hospital beds. There are so many specialty beds now that are pressure. Beds that sit people up. Beds that stand people up. Things like that. The beds that we had were crank. You had to turn the crank to raise the head of the bed, or to raise the knees. And yeah, they all had side rails. But crank beds were sort of the way it was.

FH: Do you remember any faculty who played an important role in your experience at Madison General?

JE: Peers?

FH: Yes.

JE: You mean the faculty besides myself? Yeah. Betty Roberts was the lead 00:40:00instructor in the introductory, fundamental sort of course, I think. That's my impression. I really don't know what her title was at that time. But she was a star. She was bubbly and energetic and positive. And you can do it, you know, it will work out. So she was, and she was like a mother to so many people. She was just great.

And then Dotty Woodring was a lead instructor, Dorothy Woodring, in psychiatric program, clinical. And she was innovative and brave and had a lot of ideas and provided leadership for faculty. So what happened is, people had their 00:41:00specialties but they also crossed over into other classes. So if you were in the introduction to nursing course and later you taught in med-surg 1 or med-surg 2 or taught in a course called leadership where we had student nurses be team leaders. And so they were team leaders for nursing assistants and other student nurses on the unit to provide care to a group of patients. So your role as faculty kept changing based on what course you were teaching at that time.

I think one of the people that was really powerful in my mind was Betty Roberts. Because I wanted to be like Betty.

FH: How did you learn to teach?

41:57

JE: That's a great question. And as I looked back through the book that I was 00:42:00referring to, The History of Madison General School of Nursing, and the annual goals for the school, is a lot of how I learned how to teach was through trainings, through in-service and consultations and other programs at the School of Nursing Miss Schmitt and other directors of the school organized for faculty in-services. So everybody learns how to teach in nursing school. So when I was a neophyte little nursing student back in Joliet, we learned how to teach. How to teach patients. And a lot of that teaching concept is applicable to adult 00:43:00learners. And so I think that I learned back in nursing school. And then, and certainly in your life you role model teachers in your life even from high school who had great instructive style.

And then how we kept improving and shaping our teaching skills, part of it was also at the UW, a focus on teaching. And we had to take, to get my bachelor's degree, I had to take teaching and learning courses. And then at the School of Nursing, Madison General, I was able to model after teachers. And then we had actual curriculum development for faculty, so that we could become better teachers.

FH: Was there sort of an evaluation program.

JE: Yeah. There was--we as faculty?

FH: Mm hmm. Yes.

JE: Well we were evaluated, certainly, as an employee. But there were certainly a couple of points along that history there where we evaluated what were we doing, were we doing the right thing, how were we going to redesign the curriculum, how were we going to incorporate pharmacology? For a while, pharmacology was a separate course. And then it was integrated so each of us as clinical faculty had to incorporate pharmacology into our content. Then it came back to be a separate course again. So we were always looking at the curriculum. And then evaluating how that was going. As far as evaluation for us, our lead 00:45:00instructor did our evaluations of us. And submitted reports, whatever, to the director.

FH: And what other ways did curriculum change during the ten years that you were there?

JE: I think that, it was interesting. When I was in nursing school, I graduated from high school in '66. But in 1965, the American Nurses Association put out a statement about how in the future there would be two levels of nursing. Because back in the day, you could become a diploma nurse, you could become a technical college nurse, you can become, like today, a bachelor's degree nurse. There would only be two levels. There'd be technical nurses and professional nurses. And technical nurses would be two-year programs, and professional nurses would 00:46:00be four-year program grads.

So how things have changed, in my span of experience at the School of Nursing, was there was always this under layer of well, you're a two-year program so you must be technical nurses. Yet we kind of railed against that because no, no. We were professional nurses, we felt. And people from two-year programs would be directors of nursing. It's so interesting.

So part of the thing that changed over time was what was your level of education and how was that--we felt quite proud in Madison General that you had to take a whole year of college courses before you even came to the clinical phase. Where other programs would just have their diploma, their two-year face to face on the 00:47:00nursing school, and not college credit. So we felt quite proud of our program.

Another thing that changed besides mode of education was focus on nursing delivery and the models of care. So when I went to school, there was really a focus on functional nursing. Everybody had their jobs, they did their jobs, you got it done. And the patient received sort of disjointed care. But then team nursing was more apparent at the end of my nursing education, mine. And then when I went to work at Saint Mary's, it was team nursing. You had a team leader. And you had a nursing assistant. And occasionally you had student nurses to supervise. And you provided care for this group of patients that you, as the 00:48:00team leader, knew what their diagnoses was, what the care plan was for them, what the patients' objectives were in the hospital. So it went from team nursing then to everybody passed their own, the nurse passed their own medications for their group of patients.

And then the emphasis, when I was at Madison General, then we were evolving toward primary nursing, where you had one nurse who was in charge of that patient and their patient care plan and making clear that other people knew what the goals were for that patient. And the patient gained over that period of time more of a role in managing their care. Back in the day, what the doctor said, 00:49:00that was it. What the nurse said, okay, I'll do it. And at the end of my education career, it was okay, what does the patient say? (laughs) What does the patient and their family want? So the patient was really, it was patient-centered care and primary nursing.

So the model of care that we actually practiced changed, as well as sort of the, I was very proud, also, at the end of the School of Nursing, '82 and '81, probably, as it was developing, that Edgewood College was then going to move into the Madison General spaces and have clinicals at Madison General. So finally the professional nursing education was going to be occurring on the stamping grounds of Madison General School of Nursing.

FH: What about nursing students? How did they change over time, if they did at all?

50:13

JE: I think that, I think we still see it today, is second career and older students. How the nursing students changed was more of I'm the student, you're the teacher, I'll do what you say, this is the curriculum, to being more of you know what? I've got a life, I've got a family. I'm doing this. I'm not going to live in the dorm. I'm doing this because I really want to be a nurse and so I'm going to bring my maturity and my life experience to it.

So when I went to nursing school, you couldn't be married. You had to live in 00:51:00the dorm. There were rules. And when I taught at Madison General, that was not true. It wasn't just single, white, young females. It was people in their twenties and thirties. And thirties was really old for a nursing student.

FH: What do you think makes a good nurse?

JE: What makes a good nurse? I think an open heart and being a good listener. I think they need to appreciate the patient experience and where they are as you provide care. And of course, it's built on the foundation of knowing what you're doing. Science. You have to have the education. You have to be aware of so many 00:52:00things interplaying on each other. So medication side effects with diagnoses with life goals with who's taking care of the cat while I'm in the hospital. It's really having open heart and hearing where the patient is at and what their issues are. And then helping them understand the secret language of doctors and nurses.

I think one thing that has changed, it's hard to parcel this back to 1982, but the research and how your research care of patients today is internet. Just a click of the finger, you're there and you're finding out so many interesting things and reading articles from not a biased source but from England and Italy 00:53:00and California and New York. It's not just Midwestern, you know, nursing. And so how the breadth of education and the opportunities have really improved. But I think that what they say is people don't remember-and I love this quote and I always get it wrong--people don't remember how proficient you were. They remember how you cared. How you treated them. So what makes a good nurse is also a caring attitude.

00:53:50

FH: Are there any other memorable moments in your career at Madison General Hospital?

JE: There was fun. (laughs) Because the student nurses had various things that 00:54:00they did that was fun, whether it was fundraisers or whatever. But as faculty, we did, and I have the script here that we had at the time. It was Fun Night. And faculty presented to the graduating class of 1981 a faculty review. And it was funny. I mean, silly. Because we did skits and we sang songs. And we reenacted births and I mean, it was hysterical. So, Fun Night was lots of fun. When we had, I remember that, so what else, that was fun.

The other thing that was powerful for me was people were signing up to become nurses. And way back in history, nurse was really there to provide care, all aspects of care. But to even the sacrifice of them self and their life, they were there to provide care. And as nurses became, student nurses became farther along in their education, they received their nursing cap. The symbolism of the nursing cap was really powerful to me. We don't wear caps anymore. But the traditions were, when you there and you completed probation, you got capped. You 00:56:00got your nursing cap. And there was a ceremony for that. And at the end of the first year, there was a ceremony called striping, where we added a single velvet ribbon on the edge of your cap. So you could look down the hall and say oh, she hasn't even become a nursing student and have capping yet. She doesn't even have a cap. And then she would, there's no stripes on it. And then she'd have one stripe and you'd think oh, okay. And then you would have two stripes when you were a senior. So the ceremonies of capping and striping were emotional and powerful and reaffirming people's commitments to become a nurse. So that was not funny. It was very powerful. Fun Night (laughs)

And we didn't worry about copyright for our Fun Night skits, either. (FH laughs) So we sang lots of songs. The gerontology instructor sang, "When I get older, losing my hair, many years from now." They were doing all kinds of funny things.

FH: Sounds great.

JE: We certainly had students with crises. And students who, all their personal life would crash down around their education. And as faculty, we'd try to support them through that. And had a counselor, interestingly, for students during the program. And if you look back on these pages that the class of 1960 did with the History of the school of Nursing, we really had a lot of faculty for the class. I mean, I don't know the ratio. But if you look back, we had just 00:58:00a whole lot of faculty. We had our own librarian. We had our own nutrition instructor. And we had a school counselor.

So I think that, and our clinical groups were small. I went from a newly married twenty four-year-old person in miniskirts teaching to becoming one of the nurses who, one of the faculty who was chosen to read names at graduation. Our student graduated at various churches throughout the history. But it was at Bethel Lutheran Church that our graduating class went to. And be able to read their names and see all these shining faces come through at graduation. It was a nice 00:59:00closure for me to be able to read names and do that.

FH: What else are you most proud of?

JE: Pardon?

FH: What else are you most proud of?

JE: Most proud of. You know, I've been thinking about that question, because that was in the original letter. And what I'm most proud of is the, two things. The success. To watching the student go from, "I don't know," (noise) sorry, my clock, "I don't know how to handle this blood pressure cuff" to being proficient nurses. And then very proud of them later as a graduate to see them staying on at Madison General. Do I need to repeat that because of the clock?

FH: I think it was okay.

JE: Okay. Staying on as staff nurses at Madison General. So it was really nice to be able to see their successes. Very proud of that. And very proud of my fellow instructors and the kind of fair, well-grounded nursing care, nursing education that we provided for people. Yeah. So, very proud of the grads and their successes and then of our teamwork, because we really were a good team.

1:00:47

FH: And can you tell me a little bit about leaving Madison General Hospital? And what that was like and what you did after?

JE: Well, interestingly, at one point, and I don't really remember this, the 01:01:00hospitals unionized their nurses. And the School of Nursing faculty, I believe, was part of that union. But what happened when the school was closing is, and you have to verify that. I don't quite remember that. But when the school was closing, the hospital was very caring about what's going to happen to faculty, and how are we going to facilitate their next chapter? And so the hospital actually gave me a year, to keep me on status, I was still an employee, but I actually got to take a year to go to graduate school. So I went to graduate school fulltime. And they paid my tuition to go to graduate school for year one. 01:02:00So I worked as a staff nurse. I got hired into the ICU. So it's interesting, the world of nursing. Sometimes there's nursing shortages. Sometimes there's too many nurses, so our grads could snap up jobs, could take any jobs they wanted. Or they couldn't get a job because there were hardly any jobs available.

And when the School of Nursing closed, there were two jobs available in nursing in the hospital. Two. And I got one of them. I got to be in ICU. And guess which shift? Night. (laughter) But then I, then my tuition was paid full time for me to go to the university and work toward my master's degree. One of the objectives from the School of Nursing was to have people who had, all of our 01:03:00faculty had bachelor's degrees. But the goal was for people to have master's degrees. So several of the instructors did have master's. And I believe that [unclear] was one of them. But that was an emphasis or a goal for the school.

So when the school closed, it was sad. Because all those relationships sort of terminated, were changed, evolved. But then I got to get a good step up into getting my master's degree at UW. And I got to then have great clinical experiences as a staff nurse in ICU.

FH: How long were you a staff nurse for?

JE: The school closed in '82. And so that's why the '85 rang in my head. So in 01:04:001985, then I became a, I went from '82 to '85 as a staff nurse in ICU. And then in 1985, I took on a job as a staff educator in in-service education. So I was in ICU three years, about. And then from '85 until I retired, four years ago, 2016, I was in staff education. A long time.

FH: What was that experience like?

JE: I'm sorry, what?

FH: What was that experience like? In staff education?

JE: Going into staff education?

FH: Mm hmm.

JE: It was good. I liked it. Because again, I who never wanted to be a teacher 01:05:00decided I loved teaching. (laughs) So it gave me an opportunity to get back not from patient care but to educate the nurses who came to us with, nurses and nursing assistants, who came to us with some experience and knowledge. And then how to shape them to provide excellent care for our patients in Madison General.

And then some of my co-teachers had been graduates of Madison General School of Nursing. So it was funny.

01:05:38

FH: What other ways did you stay in touch with your coworkers from Madison General Hospital? Or did you at all?

JE: Yeah. Well, not in, you know, of the twenty or twenty-some instructors that you know, you stayed in touch with a few of them. And just getting graduating with people. We actually would have gatherings, whether it was garden parties or 01:06:00meeting people for breakfast or other things like that. And then we actually had a, we had an alumni faculty gathering about seven years ago, maybe five years ago. And so contacting all of the different people from our faculty and inviting them to a luncheon kind of thing at Madison General. We did that. So, getting together. Just a couple of them become lifelong friends. So I'm still in touch with them. And then occasional gatherings at reunions we would have.

FH: Now in retirement, is there anything you miss most about teaching or being a 01:07:00nurse? Or anything from your career?

JE: No. But I do want to say this one statement, that when I, I'll think about your question. But when I went from being an ICU nurse and providing patient care, my daughter was young. And then she said, "Mom, are you going to miss taking care of patients because you're teaching?" And you go into nursing because you get to have hands on and be part of people's life during their crises of health.

And I said, "No. Actually, Susannah, what I really like is that I can help my students. And then in staff education our nurses reach out to patients in a different way." Or just feel validated about the kind of care that they're providing. But that I get to reach and provide patient care through the hands of 01:08:00others. So I didn't feel the big gap of not providing hands-on care. Because I felt I was, sort of.

And so the question you asked about in retirement, what?

FH: Is there anything that you miss most about your career? Being a teacher or being a nurse?

JE: Well, I've been retired now four years. And from staff education and then what I miss is, what I think a lot of people miss when they step into retirement is just the camaraderie, the focus on a certain purpose to help complete. Whether it's hospital goals, an in-service education or curriculum requirement. 01:09:00I miss having that focus and purpose. But I still am sort of a health person for our family. (laughter) So I get to provide as a mother and as a retired nurse. I still get lots of queries about, "What do you think about this?" and "What do you think about that?" and "Do you think that I should go to the hospital or not?" So I still get to do folk nursing on the side. But I do miss leading a work setting when you had a team all working toward a common goal. So I do miss that.

FH: What advice would you give future faculty members in the nursing school or future nursing students?

JE: One thing I would say is be open to innovation. Because you don't do it 01:10:00because that's the way you do it. You don't do it because that's the way we've always done it. That there's many new ways to do things to achieve outcomes. And I would just as you have patient-centered care and patients involved in partners in care, I would also say the same thing, pay attention to the students and what they bring to the curriculum. So I would say be alert to who your subject is, whether it's students or patients, and be open for innovation. And new modalities. Heck, everybody's doing Zoom classrooms right now and distance learning. And who thought you could take SATs to get into college, who thought 01:11:00you could take those at home on a computer? This is, we are in a strange time right now. But it is forcing us to rethink how we do things. Not that we want pandemics. But I think that future students and teachers, that we have to really be open to change. As long as you're focused on the end goal of becoming professional nurses and having a well-grounded science education.

FH: Well, Judy, that's all the questions I have. Is there anything else that you would like to add in this interview?

JE: No. I really appreciate that there is such a process going on. Madison 01:12:00General has a long and proud tradition. And I feel privileged that I was part of it. And I feel privileged to be included in this interview process. So thank you, Faith, I appreciate that.

FH: Thank you. We appreciate all of your contributions, and sharing your time and experience with us. This has been great.

JE: Excellent.

FH: Thank you so much.

JE: Thank you. Goodbye. And--

01:12:27

End First Interview Session