Interview with Tim Frandy

Segment Synopsis: September 27, 2011. First interview with Tim Frandy. Conducted by Troy Reeves for the 2011 Capitol Protest Collection for the Oral History Program.

Segment Synopsis: Question: Brief biography of life prior to UW-Madison? Answer: Tim Frandy (TF) started with an overview of his collegiate career. He went to college at UW-Stevens Point, majoring in English and math. He came from a family of educators, so college education was always in the cards. He went to Washington State University for his first graduate school stint. After his time at WSU, he came to UW-Madison to be closer to family and to learn Finnish.

Keywords: family history; research interests; undergraduate education

Segment Synopsis: Question: Parents from WI? Answer: Tim’s father’s family came from Arbor Vitae, WI, near Minocqua. His mother came from Danbury, WI. Both parents taught for awhile, and Tim’s father taught long term. Although his parents taught English and math, TF started school as a music major.

Keywords: family history; undergraduate education

Segment Synopsis: Question: Graduate school in Washington? Answer: TF loved his undergraduate career at UWSP, but it limited his graduate school choices. A couple of his UWSP professors had attended Washington State University, and they helped him matriculate there. In response to a question, he spoke about his time at WSU, including his thoughts about being in a rural, isolated location with colleagues from across the country.

Keywords: graduate education; undergraduate degree

Segment Synopsis: Question: Research interest? Answer: His early research focused on the Lake Superior region. He noted that he did his graduate work at WSU from 2001-03 and came to UW-Madison in 2003. His attraction to UW-Madison, beyond his previous reasons, came from reading the work of one UW-Madison professor, Tom Dubois. TF talked about Dubois’ work and how it has influenced his own work. He also discussed another UW-Madison professor, Jim Leary, who influenced TF’s research.

Keywords: Finnish-American studies; ethnic studies; immigrant studies; labor issues; regional literature

Segment Synopsis: Question: Follow ups about the terms, ecological criticism & Sami? Answer: TF answered both follow-ups, delving into the idea of ecological criticism and offering an overview of Sami history and culture. The Sami come from Northern Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia), so TF will go there to do fieldwork and interviews.

Segment Synopsis: Question: TAA involvement? Answer: TF started at UW-Madison in the summer of 2003 as a special student, so he did not start his involvement in the TAA until the next year. He did not work on the TAA strike in the Spring of 2004, but he also did not cross the picket line. TF became more serious about the TAA in the Fall of 2005. Rob Henn, a staff organizer for the TAA, contacted TF, and they met at Steep & Brew. TF served on the Stewards’ Council and became involved in the Coalition for Affordable Public Education (CAPE) campaign. He explained CAPE’s campaign in depth, which was about tuition remission for graduate students and led to far less project assistantships on campus, which negatively affected graduate students. He also noted that CAPE has continued to work on campus, including trying to get in-state tuition for graduate students. While TF has resided in Wisconsin for most of his life, making in-state tuition a non-issue for him personally, he argued for in-state tuition for all graduate students.

Keywords: Coalition for Affordable Public Education (CAPE); budget; grant funding; project assistantships

Segment Synopsis: Question: Involvement in politics, pre-2011? Answer: After the CAPE/tuition remission issue, TF became more involved in the TAA, including serving as co-president in 2008-09. TF preferred organizing to electoral politics. When asked for more major issues in TF’s TAA history, he talked first about a big fight to get domestic partnership. The TAA first pushed for it in the 1990s. They even won it in one contract, but the state then denied that contract. In 2008 they, and others, pushed it through the legislature. TF discussed the 2008 election, which included many close elections. The TAA and other unions drove outside of Madison to get pro-union folks elected.

Keywords: LGBT rights; domestic partnership rights; union organizing

Segment Synopsis: Another big issue in recent TAA history was the campaign to get the Natatorium renovated. TF recounted that the Association Students of Madison and Chancellor John Wiley wanted to raise student “seg” fees to pay for the new Union South and renovations to Memorial Union. TF described the three different votes that finally led to passage of these renovations and the increase in student “seg” fees.

Keywords: ASM; Chancellor's Office; segregated fees

Segment Synopsis: TF admitted that the TAA did not prepare well against the vote to build the new Union South. So, when Chancellor Martin took over, the TAA met with her to discuss the Natatorium renovation, because they vowed not to let something like that vote happen again. TF said Martin felt outraged at what happened and what might happen to renovate the Natatorium. He claimed that she nevertheless later argued for the Nat renovations.

Keywords: Chancellor Biddy Martin; Chancellor's Office; increased segregated fees

Segment Synopsis: Question: What are “seg” fees? Answer: TF explained that “seg fees” are “segregated fees” that have always been charged to all students when they pay tuition. TF stated that traditionally those fees would go to items like student health care and the bus pass program, but, since the state had capped tuition, segregated fees became a way for campuses to pay for myriad things, including building projects.

Keywords: increased segregated fees; tuition cap

Segment Synopsis: Question: 2010 election? Answer: TF did not foresee “radical change” from that election’s results. He did note that he followed the election from afar for most of 2010, because he lived in Finland, doing fieldwork, until October 2010. TF felt the Republican majority would play it safe. He saw the writing on the wall, however, when the state rejected new union contracts between the November election and Scott Walker’s inauguration. TF wondered why the Democrats, especially State Senator Russ Decker, would do that. The TAA held a membership meeting with a packed room. They created an emergency response team, because they now recognized that change would come.

Keywords: Scott Walker; bargaining team; emergency meeting; union contracts; union negotiations

Segment Synopsis: Question: Budget Repair Bill? Answer: TF recalled reading “Blaska’s Blog” [by Dave Blaska] on the Isthmus’ website, the week of February 7th, where Blaska wrote cryptically that something big was going to happen. Although no one confirmed or denied Blaska’s reporting, TF felt Blaska had hit on something. TF then discussed the TAA office on Thursday night, February 10, 2011. They had met to prepare for a Valentine’s Day event at the Capitol. At that point TF and others in the office found a “sneak peek” at the Budget Repair Bill. TF left Madison on Friday but came back Saturday morning. He recalled calling people on the phone, telling them to prepare. TF had thought little about Thursday night until this interview. He recalled TAA Vice President Peter Rickman telling those in the office to go home and get some rest, because he figured that it would be the last good night’s sleep in awhile.

Keywords: Dave Blaska; Isthmus

Segment Synopsis: Question: New Badger Partnership? Answer: While the build up to the Budget Repair Bill went forward, another effort, the New Badger Partnership (NBP) began. TF said that he and the TAA tried to get specifics from Chancellor Martin and found her attitude cryptic and vague. Unions did work to get a seat at the table, because they wanted to be a part of the process. Campus Unions did not want to simply serve in an advisory capacity to a process that campus leaders would control. This story led TF to recall a contemporary event, the opening of the Wisconsin Institutes for Discovery, and its hiring of non-union food-service workers, which the University justified because private funds had been involved in the Institute’s creation. TF talked more about the NBP, including the possible tuition hikes, Governor Walker’s support of it, and Chancellor Martin’s need to push it through quickly. The TAA voted against it.

Keywords: Chancellor Biddy Martin; Wisconsin Institutes for Discovery; shared governance; tuition increases; union busting

Segment Synopsis: Question: Chancellor Martin and the TAA? Answer: TF met her and liked her, and he thought she would be more TAA-friendly. When research assistants won collective bargaining rights, TF said that Chancellor Martin’s team fought against it. TF noted that the TAA had no wherewithal at the time to organize the RAs. TF noted that some bad blood between the TAA and the Chancellor could have arisen over the Natatorium, but TF did not know for sure because he spent most of that battle overseas. While the TAA probably endorsed (TF could not recall if they endorsed any finalist) Martin, they saw that she lacked transparency and seemed to have issues related to process. TF finished with an anecdote. Jesse Jackson delivered a speech on Bascom Hill in April 2011, but Chancellor Martin opted not to attend the event.

Keywords: Chancellor Biddy Martian; collective bargaining; research assistants

Segment Synopsis: September 29, 2011. Interview session 2 with Tim Frandy. Conducted by Troy Reeves.

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did Governor Walker’s email change the basic idea of the February 14 event? Answer: TF said the TAA originally planned a Valentine’s Day “I heart UW” rally, which was intended to show love for higher education and communicate dissatisfaction with the impending cuts to UW funding. By February 11, they decided to tweak the plan a bit, but continued to identify the event as a rally rather than a protest. He also mentioned that the Wisconsin AFL-CIO two-day rally turned out to be much different than anticipated.

Keywords: UW System Budget; budget cuts; higher education

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did the TAA start to change its tactics after the February 14th event? Answer: The TAA was always vigilant about their message and tried to prevent any negative, counter-productive messages. Early on, TF realized Walker’s Budget Repair Bill would ignite a protest, particularly after polls revealed the majority of Wisconsinites supported public employees’ right to have unions. Once the TAA knew the public agreed with them, they felt they could get more aggressive with their tactics.

Keywords: Budget Repair Bill; polling; public opinion

Segment Synopsis: Question: The TAA took up residence in the Capitol? Answer: TF recounted his activities for the TAA following the February 14th rally, and the TAA’s plan to testify before the Joint Finance Committee (JFC). The following day, the TAA planned to gather fellow members at the Capitol after the public rallies in order to testify before the JFC; they wanted to keep the JFC in the Capitol as late as possible - potentially all night - to listen to constituent testimony. Alex Hanna, current co-president of TAA, created a Facebook group called “Sleep with your TA,” which encouraged undergraduates to join their TAs and sleep over at the Capitol. At this point, the TAA was prepared to occupy the Capitol, or to get arrested trying to occupy the building. TF said the TAA members who were not already at the Capitol rushed to get there by 9:00 PM in order to get inside to testify before the building doors were locked. JFC tried to cut off the hearings, which in turn provoked outrage and loud chanting. Representative Lena Taylor from Southern Milwaukee was able to get the Republicans to agree to stay until 2:00 AM to listen to testimony.

Keywords: Joint Finance Committee; Lena Taylor; public testimony

Segment Synopsis: After the Republicans left at 2:00 AM, the Democrats held a press conference in the Rotunda at which they stated that they would continue to take people’s testimony. TF stated this was an important development, because it allowed the building to remain open and for people to remain in the Capitol: as long as legislative meetings are taking place, the public has a right to be present inside the Capitol building. TF noted this was how the occupation began; he recalled spending the remainder of the morning waking people up to testify.

Keywords: public testimony

Segment Synopsis: Question: When did the WI 14 leave? Answer: Thursday [2/17/11]. TF tried to reconstruct the basic timeline of events: the first day was the JFC testimony [Tuesday, 2/15/11], the second day was the JFC vote [Wednesday, 2/16/11], and the Assembly vote was the next day, which was also when the Senators left. TF felt that Thursday was the first day the TAA gained significant momentum.

Keywords: Wisconsin 14

Segment Synopsis: He then talked about press coverage of the protests. The TAA had to do media control during that first week because they were starting to get press coverage: the L.A. Times did a big story on the TAA, and, by Thursday, they were getting international coverage. TF expressed frustration with the national media, because he felt that they did a poor job reporting sufficiently or accurately about the protests and about Wisconsin politics. The TAA responded by disseminating correct information about Wisconsin’s actual financial situation; state employee salaries, etc.

Keywords: international media; national coverage

Segment Synopsis: TF shared recollections on other ways the TAA coordinated efforts at the Capitol. TAA held meetings inside the Capitol. AFT President Randi Weingarten and AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka started sitting in on TAA meetings. TAA also launched the Defend Wisconsin website, which was used to give directions on strategic door blocking in an effort to prevent the vote from occurring. TF then talked about some of his favorite memories from the first week of the Capitol occupation.

Keywords: graduate income; student union

Segment Synopsis: 25 Question: How did Facebook and other social media influence the protests? Answer: TF described Facebook as a fantastic tool and as the new reality of social unrest. He also used Twitter to mobilize people, which was particularly useful for communicating directives about blocking entrances. TF recognized that the downside to social media is that it can be used to spread bad information. Additionally, he saw social media as an important way to democratize the media process, which proved vital for this event since national media coverage was inaccurate. State newspapers (i.e., Wisconsin State Journal and Milwaukee Sentinel) also misrepresented information and endorsed Walker. TF gave examples of the kinds of misinformation spread by media outlets and concluded that the TAA worked hard to disseminate correct information to the public and the media throughout the country.

Keywords: Twitter; mainstream media coverage; misinformation; national media; rumors; state coverage

Segment Synopsis: [No question.] TF and interviewer discussed timeline of events and when security at the Capitol began increasing (i.e., closing entrances and bringing in metal detectors).

Keywords: Capitol security

Segment Synopsis: Question: Why did you decide to take pictures? Answer: TF started taking pictures around February 13 or 14 when he was working in the Union office; he could tell it was going to be significant based on the number of people working together to mobilize. And, once the Democratic senators left on Thursday (2/17), he knew the protests constituted a historic event.

TF talked about the evolution of the Capitol occupation: it started out with only a few hundred people, mostly TAA and undergrads. By Thursday, high school kids started marching, Madison schools closed, etc. When high school students started causing problems with drinking inside the Capitol, TF realized the event had grown large enough to have a life of its own. He identified this period as a time when people started developing and playing different social roles: the drum circles started, Capitol City community moved in, and medics, info centers, and daycare centers appeared. He initially found this disconcerting because the TAA no longer had control over what happened.

Keywords: documentation

Segment Synopsis: TF talked about the evolution of the Capitol occupation: it started out with only a few hundred people, mostly TAA and undergrads. By Thursday, high school kids started marching, Madison schools closed, etc. When high school students started causing problems with drinking inside the Capitol, TF realized the event had grown large enough to have a life of its own. He identified this period as a time when people started developing and playing different social roles: the drum circles started, Capitol City community moved in, and medics, info centers, and daycare centers appeared. He initially found this disconcerting because the TAA no longer had control over what happened.

Keywords: high school students; public perception; vandalism

Segment Synopsis: [No question.] TF discussed the emergence of the marshalling system, which was comprised of union members who helped keep people calm by aiding in negotiations between the crowd and police officers.

Keywords: authority; crowd control; power dynamics

Segment Synopsis: Question: Can you explain the TAA war room? Answer: The war room was located in the Capitol at 230 North East. TF was not certain about its origins, but thought a Democratic ally offered the room to the TAA, giving them a place to gather together, store belongings, sleep, and plug in electronics. The internet access was crucial for communicating, and there were not many outlets in the Capitol. So people congregated in the war room for access. But, TF described how this area eventually became unpleasant due to increasing tension and intensity.

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was your experience with law enforcement in and around the Capitol? Answer: TF felt like the Capitol police were on their side, and he empathized with the difficulties they faced in trying to keep the peace. He recounted his memories of Thursday, March 10, the day the police started dragging protestors out of Senate antechamber.

Keywords: law enforcement; peace keeping

Segment Synopsis: [No question.] He continued talking about the police presence at the Capitol and explained how the DOA started recruiting State Troopers and bringing them in from outside of Madison. TF assumed these out-of-town officers were cherry-picked based on their political leanings, and he described how their attitude was very different from that of the Capitol police.

Keywords: DOA; Wisconsin State Troopers; private security

Segment Synopsis: Question: Was there a different vibe during the weekend rallies? Answer: TF looked forward to weekends because the crowds were bigger, which enabled him to take a break to do his own work and prepare material for a class he was teaching on Sami culture. He talked about the difficulties balancing his time between being an activist and being a lecturer. He cancelled three classes due to the TAA teach outs, but did not encounter any hostility or complaints from his students. He then described his interpretation of the University’s official reaction to the TAA teach outs.

Keywords: paid lecturing; student response; teach outs; university response

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was your high point/low point during the protests? Answer: TF again noted Thursday, February 17 was when the protests gained momentum the public had taken control of Capitol. Throughout the protests, however, he recalled feeling disenfranchised because, despite the huge numbers of protestors, they were unable to effectively impact the political process. TF concluded by recounting his favorite memories from the protests.

Keywords: occupation

Segment Synopsis: Interview with Tim Frandy on October 21, 2011. Conducted by Troy Reeves for the 2011 Capitol Protest Oral History Project.

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did Facebook and other social media influence the protests? Answer: TF recalled a similar discussion during a previous interview, and he recounted how Twitter and Facebook helped the TAA and others block doorways to try to stop debate on the Budget Repair Bill. TF also discussed that social media helped in the storming of the Capital on March 9, when the state senate passed a stripped-down version of the bill. This thought reminded TF that there were more traditional methods of getting that news out, including a “town crier” and a parade of honking horns.

Keywords: Defend Wisconsin

Segment Synopsis: [No question.] TF talked about Facebook posts as a way to control the message and spread the word. He described how the protests made the student newspapers and The Isthmus the first days. And the TAA felt great. But the protests made the statewide newspapers and the national media soon after that. TF argued that the mainstream media missed the message of the protests, framing the issue as benefit cuts and not workers’ rights.

Keywords: Facebook; benefits; local coverage

Segment Synopsis: When the national media arrived or reported the story, they barraged the TAA for quotes and for information. TF would post stories on Facebook, which others would pick up and repost. TF had used Facebook very little before the protests but jumped in to put out the message. He told a story about working with a friend of his to compile statistics about how Wisconsin ranked among states in economic statistics. Wisconsin fell into the middle of the pack, and TF posted these statistics on Facebook. TF discussed his opinion about the “corporatized” media. He noted that a small Tea Party protest in DC would get the same print and airtime as the thousands of people who protested in front of the State Capitol in Madison. TF vowed to never again buy the Madison or Milwaukee newspapers. This protest led TF to say that perhaps the demise of newspapers might not be a bad thing.

Keywords: TAA; corporate media; fact checking; national coverage; print media; state coverage

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did you post these on Facebook? Answer: He would submit articles on his own page, then Hilary Virtanen (another narrator for this project) would repost on her event Facebook, which turned into a page. When asked if he checked other pages, he said he pushed out stories from his page that Hilary would pick up. He also recalled writing an editorial columnist from the Wisconsin State Journal and commenting on the bottom of blog posts or news stories.

Keywords: Facebook; Hilary Virtanen; comment sections

Segment Synopsis: Question: Was TF doing specific posting under the TAA banner? Answer: TAA Co-President Alex Hanna handled most of the TAA posts and feeds. TF would work with the TAA on messaging. TF would craft an email that the TAA leadership would sign off on and send to the membership. TF remembered doing phone banking to reach the constituents of three Republican senators whom they thought might vote against the Budget Repair Bill. From this point TF furnished his memories on a key point of the protest: winning the rhetorical battle on the national stage. He discussed how the rhetoric changed and how the early polls came in showing most of the Wisconsinites disapproving of the Governor’s tactics. Once those polls emerged, TF knew their argument held sway with most of the state.

Keywords: polling; public opinion; union busting

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did Democratic officials (state and federal) support the protests? Answer: TF noted that the Wisconsin 14 gained his respect by leaving the state, although he noted some of them held more of his respect than others. He briefly touched on the Democratic senator from his home district in northern Wisconsin, Jim Holperin, who fought off an August recall. TF shifted his thoughts to the national stage and talked negatively about U.S. Senator Herb Kohl and President Barack Obama. He stated that President Obama’s lack of comments might have benefited him strategically but that, in TF’s personal opinion, he disliked the President’s lack of a stance. He thought President Obama lined up with corporations instead of workers.

Keywords: Herb Kohl; Jim Holperin; President Barack Obama; Russ Feingold

Segment Synopsis: Question: Opinion regarding the August recall elections? Answer: TF felt positive about the recalls, calling them a good use of time and energy. He remembered talking to a person who worked for the UW-Milwaukee graduate labor union and saying to him that they should look to recall some Republican state senators. TF involved himself little in the recall process. Overall, he supported the process on personal, ethical, and procedural grounds. TF felt he could accept the outcome if it went through a long-term discussion, not a four-day affair. TF discussed the tradition of clean government in Wisconsin, and he hoped it would be restored. TF was disappointed that only two Republican senators lost their seats, but he noted a voting shift toward the Democratic Party in all of the recalls, which seemed promising.

Keywords: "clean politics"; Republican recalls

Segment Synopsis: Question: What did you learn from the protests? Answer: TF said that he learned that major change, whether one approved or not, can occur. Politics aside, TF argued that a rational discussion should happen between two (or more) sides of an issue. Problems can be solved by handling disagreements, by facilitating discourse and by compromising. He saw the political machinations of February and March of 2011 as abhorrent. He talked about the prank phone call to Governor Walker during the first week of the protests, some of which made TF sick.

Keywords: Governor Scott Walker; social justice movements

Segment Synopsis: Question: What are your future plans academically? Answer: TF touched on the bad job market, making him want to find a job anywhere. He would rather stay in Wisconsin, but the poor outlook for humanities jobs and the budget cuts for UW-Madison have made TF realize that he probably will not get a job in Wisconsin. When asked about his future political involvement, TF will still fight the fight, perhaps as an activist teacher. He shifted to working to frame the issues at the K-12 level and to living in Madison as a good location to be involved in the political process. TF intended to be involved in economic justice issues, because they have resonated with his beliefs.

Keywords: academia; academic job market; humanities job market; job market

Segment Synopsis: Question: Parallels between the 2011 Capitol Protests and the Fall 2011 Occupy movement? Answer: TF felt the Occupy movement had everything to do with the Capitol Protests. For TF, it showed that people have realized the 30 years of “trickle down” economics does not work for most Americans. Many people now felt “disempowered” to work through the political system. Also, the mantra of “work hard, study hard, and succeed” had begun to ring hollow for folks.

Keywords: Wall Street; economic inequality; trickle-down economics

Segment Synopsis: Question: Final thoughts? Answer: TF answered this question with a story. He talked to a friend about the recent New York State Gay Marriage Law. TF felt great; his friend felt disgusted. His friend’s argument focused not on the pros or cons of gay marriage (his friend argued for it) but the difference between social activism and economic activism. He said people do not care about economic justice issues. TF took him to mean that economic issues needed to be “chic.” TF offered some examples of how people could counter arguments against the poor or lower class. He hoped that the Occupy movement might advance economic justice.

Keywords: economic inequality; progressive economics; progressive social issues; working class rights