Interview with Alex Jackson

SOPHIA ABRAMS 0:02

All right. This is Sophia Abrams interviewing Alex Jackson for the UW Black Artists Project. We are interviewing virtually via Zoom. I'm in Minneapolis and he is in Kenosha, Wisconsin. All right, so my first question for you is why UW-Madison?

Alex Jackson 0:26

I went to UW. So I was part of a scholarship program called the PEOPLE program. I think it's still running. But it's it's shrunken in size significantly to, I think, just serving Madison and Milwaukee area, but it used to be statewide, and Minneapolis as well. And so that was a scholarship program that I was part of as a freshman in high school, all the way through senior year, going up to Madison every summer taking courses and kind of preparing us for application process. And that's how I ended up at Madison.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 1:13

So then from that, did you know that you wanted to get a BFA from Madison upon like starting Madison?

Alex Jackson 1:23

Yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 1:24

So what were your first impressions of UW, and the art department your first year?

Alex Jackson 1:33

My first year? Yeah, the department was really cool. I was really like, I was just really excited to be there. And I think seeing some of the facilities, and the graduate program was really cool. And then I was really excited to have my own studio. And so that was something that wasn't available to me in the first year. But I you know, I was excited to mature into that, into that part of the program. And at first I actually was like, kind of itching to leave, not leave, but I felt because you know, every year, I mean any art student, you have to take foundation classes, and I felt kind of irritated with them, even though it was only a year. And so I was like, I need to I want to like go somewhere where I can focus on-- I was I felt like I mean, I still needed the foundations. But I felt ready to like make work, not just do assignments. And so I was kind of like, hungry to move forward.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 2:57

From that, do you think that? I guess what you're saying you were taking 00:03:00foundation classes. But do you think that the campus influenced your art or like the environment influenced your art at the time?

Alex Jackson 3:11

Yeah, definitely. Um, at first, I was a lot of the work that I started off making. When I first started, like making serious work was about my community. It was about a lot of the people that I went to school with through PEOPLE program, that I have people that are cuz I had a community there already. And so I was painting a lot of friends and that and then I also just I think it affected it. Not only was I painting things from the community, but also just the freedom and the amount of attention and space that I had influenced the way that I can make work. Like I felt very supportive. And it was also interesting to be somewhere like Madison or somewhere like in the Midwest in general, because it's not a major artistic hub, like there isn't, you know, like you go to New York or something or the East Coast, there's a lot of there are a lot of resources and museums and being an artist is like people don't aren't suspicious of that or, like it's just a normal, it's just more normal of a scene. And so there's kind of this like distance that like I felt like I was looking outward to other places a lot more than around what was necessarily like immediately around me.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 5:02

So then, let me see here. Um, so I'm looking at your portfolio, I see that there was like a freshman show "And Eyeball It" at the Seventh Floor Gallery. Can you talk a little bit about those shows?

Alex Jackson 5:24

I'll try. Yeah, if I can remember. Yeah. Let's see. Well, I think the one show well the freshman show was just like, every year, the first year students kind of have a little exhibition in a student gallery. And I think "Eyeball It" was just show a strange kind of one of the older students, that was part of the BFA program. I just I think we just randomly met in the hallway or something, and 00:06:00she's like, oh, put something in this thing. And I participated in that. And she I think it was, it was. I don't even know what this shows about, honestly. I was called "Eyeball It." But I put, I was working a lot in my, in my dorm room, outside of class, and I had some, some images from that. So I think I included something that I had made, like, back home in high school or something. That was like, right, when I got to school.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 6:35

I see. And then from that, I know you listed like some professors and stuff for so during your first year, did you have any notable experiences with any of those professors? Or was that later on?

Alex Jackson 6:51

I think, yeah, our relationship definitely got more intimate as I got older, as I matured in the program, but um, cuz I think most of the first year foundation classes are taught by grad students. Yeah, I didn't really have any professors that my first year that I didn't really yeah, I think it was like immediately like the sophomore year, and then it was like, I started to have a relationship with those people.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 7:32

Um, so before we move on to your second year, are there any other notable events or people that you think we missed that are worthwhile to talk about?

Alex Jackson 7:43

Im my first year? Well, I don't know if I can point to anyone specific but there were. So there's the Colloquium Series, what happens at the Chazen Museum and that was it was cool to see artists who were-- it's a great it's an artist series, or Lecture Series program. It happens every Wednesday-- it used to happen every Wednesday. And that was really cool to see. Artists who were actually working and out in the world and it was a very like motivating experience. And I think freshman year to like, I also got really right away like I I got really serious about like, just being in the studio, like I was learning 00:09:00about what a studio practice was. And just spent a lot of I started-- this is like the beginning of like, starting I spent a good amount of time at humanities building, like outside of class doing stuff. Yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 9:25

So from that, so I guess it's like summer 2012 is when you finished your first year. So did you do any notable events that summer before your sophomore year?

Alex Jackson 9:39

I don't think so. I think I just came back home. And because I was living in a dorm, so I had to move out. And no, probably not probably just messed around. Yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 9:54

Yeah. All right. So now sophomore year, so could you a little bit about your first semester sophomore year?

Alex Jackson 10:05

Yeah, sophomore year, I think that that's your that kind of changed the course of like everything even up till today, because I mean, I took my first like painting class, which is what I was like kind of always wanted to work towards. And that was like, you know, a really great experience. That was with {Derrick Buisch .} And that's when I first started to kind of develop my own practice, I was able to start utilizing some of the ideas and exploring more conceptual elements of painting and building like my own language. And there was that class and then I think I started taking, like, more advanced drawing class where it was like, open, like, it was just the, whatever you want, start building your, you know, you're working on whatever you want to work on, and we'll talk about it kind of thing. And I also started to, and I really yeah, and then I and then I got, I started working in the intermediate painting class. And so that's when I really started to, it was completely open for me to just do whatever I wanted to. And that's when things really started to kind of like, for me, they started to form something. And I started making my first body of work that year.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 11:54

Did you have Fred Stonehouse for your professor for painting?

Alex Jackson 11:58

For drawing, yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 11:59

Oh, for drawing

Alex Jackson 11:59

Yeah. Drawing. And painting later on.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 12:04

You talked about kind of how like, that time was super pivotal in shaping who you are even today? Can you just expand upon kind of what it meant for you to have more freedom to really start to kind of expand your work?

Alex Jackson 12:20

Yeah, um, I feel like the biggest thing that any artist can kind of like, learn in school, art school, is the most important thing from all my experiences, both in undergrad and grad school were learning how to structure your, your practice, and that goes down to like your routine. Your-- How do you do research? How do you evaluate your own work? Are you critical? How do you move forward and develop and make stronger, stronger work? Those were kind of like the first steps, you know, those classes were the first steps that I had to change to start to like. And it it requires a lot of failure because you don't really know what you're doing. But it's important, really important work to start doing early on, because you're starting to see what it what it takes to structure your own time in the studio. And that's kind of as artists who are living and working, if this is something that you want to do most of the time, you're not going to be just Either you are going to be in the studio full time, which you're your own boss, and you have to be productive, you can't just like, no one's gonna come in. There's no critique date, like you have, you got to make sure you get the work done. And then also, it's like integrating it with other ways of surviving is you have to have a job or you have to do other things. So having that freedom is definitely like, important to have, I think early on because it really carries over as you mature and you're making work.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 14:27

So from that, for you, like you also mentioned, notable courses that you took include "Intro to Filmmaking," "Beginning and Intermediate Fiction," "Black History" and "Advanced Painting," which you kind of talked about. Did you take any of those classes sophomore year?

Alex Jackson 14:50

I think-- I took. I don't think so. I think those are all my junior year? Yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 15:04

And I guess to like you mentioned some themes being like inside outside mythology, storytelling, history, architecture, and light and dark. Were those themes that you started to kind of, I guess, manifests in your work sophomore year, or were those later on to?

Alex Jackson 15:24

Yeah, I think they, if I think about during that time, I probably wouldn't have been able to identify them. The way I look back at them now, like those ideas, they never really like, leave, like the things that I started making work about, just from like a very, like, from my gut, and from a very intuitive place, just trying to learn how to make something. The ideas that just naturally came out are still things that I'm very interested in. Yeah, that was definitely like, never left the work, even though it's changed and shifted in the way that I think about it. It's still kind of like the crux of everything. You're on mute.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 16:20

Sorry. And then so I see that also, in 2012, you had a show at the MSC Gallery "Race, Religion, and Representation" as well as the undergraduate symposium juried exhibition. Can you talk a little bit about those, please?

Alex Jackson 16:42

I think that the juried symposium I think there might have been something that I think. Okay, so there's like the Student Union, like an Arts Student Union, I believe, and they kind of hosted like a show, or they put out this like open call every year, and I think it's at the terrace, Monona Terrace and. Is that noise bothering you?

SOPHIA ABRAMS 17:14

It's okay. It's okay. Yeah, minimal.

Alex Jackson 17:21

And so I did that show, which everybody just kind of, like submit something to that was the juried show. And then the other one you mentioned was at the MSC Galleries, and that was at the Multicultural Student Center, at the Red Gym. And I think that was, I think, the same person that no, that was a friend organized, who was a graduate student, Jay Katelansky and asked me to participate now.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 18:06

I saw that-- I'll ask you more about like, Jay, but like, how would you say like, her influence was, on you at that time?

Alex Jackson 18:15

It was it was I mean, we didn't, we interacted a good amount, but not too much because she was in graduate school and. But she were both one of the only like black people in. But she was the only black student in graduate school. And I was pretty much one of the only, if not like one of three, maybe in art school. And so we just naturally kind of like gravitated towards each other, because there were certain things that we could, like, the conversations we wanted to have weren't really happening. You know, in our peer group, a lot of events, that's kind of the experience with a lot of institutions. And with a lot of black students anywhere is like, in the circles that you might be studying in, if they're outside of like history, or Black studies, or African Studies, African American Studies, like the dialogue around those things doesn't necessarily happen unless you reach out into the university where those things are being talked about. And so, yeah, at least in our department, like and there was only one black professor to in our department, Leslie Smith that there So yeah, I was just like, good, somebody around because she was going through, you know, graduate school because already graduate school is hard, but then to have that everything you know, that you're thinking about kind of no one has the language or tools to talk about them. It was like really difficult for her to be there. And so those are conversations that we were able to kind of like have outside of the school.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 20:02

So, before we jump to your third year, are there any other notable events or classes or pieces that you made sophomore year?

Alex Jackson 20:18

Um, yeah, I don't think that their pictures on my website like all that work is kind of like, hidden away now. But um, I definitely yeah, the first there's a painting that I I can't remember the name of it, there are two paintings that I made that year that like set up a whole, my whole junior year of work. And I worked on them for a long time. And it really like set up like a way for me to at least just for that next year to like set up a project that I was committed 00:21:00to and focused on. And I learned a lot from many of those were life changing moves, as well, because they put me in other spaces where my ideas were challenged, and I was able to mature as a thinker. I also studied abroad that summer, after my sophomore year, I went to Italy.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 21:32

Could you talk a little bit more about the paintings? Like what was the subject subject matter of those?

Alex Jackson 21:39

Well, the first painting I made was in my "Intro to Painting Class." Well, I had, you know, we have assignments. And then, but the last painting that we were able to make this completely up to us and I had this canvas that I bought, I think I've been carrying it around, it was big, it was like, to me, it was big at the time, it was three by four feet. And I think I had it, I bought it in in high school. And it was just, I was waiting to use it. And I used it. That was the last painting that I made in that "Intro to Painting Class. It was like this release of all these kind of like painterly applications, you know, painterly applications of using my tools and trying out different mediums and but it was kind of this color field, abstract, very expressionistic painting that had collapsed, like all these different moments in history. It was like Washington Crossing the Delaware like that. It was it. I painted Washington from that famous painting. And then I put it by painting or moments from like civil rights photographs, and kind of like, yeah, just put them all in one, one space. And so that was like, kind of a cathartic release of just me identifying the things that I like, was thinking about and then just like, putting them in something. And then the other painting I made was a big painting of it was kind of an expansion of that painting, but took it to another, more specific place because I painted. It was kind of like a deconstructed painting of the Washington Crossing the Delaware painting, but it was with people that I was in school. And 00:24:00it was, your know, more contemporary, like there was a car instead of a boat. And that was like a six by seven foot painting. And I worked on it for like 10 months.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 24:15

How would you say that those were--How did people respond to those at Madison?

Alex Jackson 24:22

Um, yeah, people were excited about them. I had a lot of like, good feedback. And I think like the dialogue that I wanted to have around them wasn't necessarily like, reciprocated. But I also didn't have I don't think I really had like the language or tools to really like discuss what I was thinking about, even though there were they were very, like complicated ideas, I like I felt them. I felt like what I meant, but I didn't really have the language to like, discuss or talk about why I was making certain decisions in those. And so a lot of it was just like learning how to paint, learning how to make something, because those are two separate things. There's like making the work. And then there's thinking about it and talking about it. And my primary focus was like, how do I paint this thing? Or how do I build up? How do I build an image? So it was a lot, I just, like, testing stuff out and seeing what happens, and it was very supportive from my professors. And, yeah, they were excited because I was fairly, like, young. And was working really hard. Early on, and it wasn't something that like, people just didn't really do that. There are a lot of people, you know, there are a lot of artists in the program and everything, but some of the most of most of the people that I would just go with don't, weren't really entirely committed to making work. At that level of intensity for a lot of people was like pretty casual and not that serious of a thing. And to me, it was like I was thinking about doing so.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 26:48

Would you say that kind of some people's maybe nonchalance towards art perhaps inspired you or motivated you to really utilize, you know, your undergrad to see 00:27:00where you can go as an artist?

Alex Jackson 27:04

Yeah, I think I don't know if it like, I don't know, if their nonchalantness necessarily motivated me. I think I kind of just had, I didn't really pay attention to them that much. I think I just was really like, "Look, this like, has to work. Like, I don't have anything if I don't do this, like to the fullest. And I like just like, I really want to be a part of this world. And I want people to see my work." And I just was able to identify that, like I needed to like really, I had to work really hard for that. I knew that it wasn't like I was just going to, you know, kind of I didn't, I guess yeah, you're right. I guess it did kind of leaving because I was like, I don't want to be the person that, like, came to school for this, and then never does it again. Or came to school. And it's just something that they kind of do. But they just, you know, I was like "No, I want to like, this is my, I want this to be how I spend my time." So yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 28:25

Another question I have, too. So one thing I've been hearing or just talking about with different black artists is kind of like, I guess an age old question of like, when you're the only one like the burden of like race or like how like you might put it on yourself. Like you have to create pieces that are only about blackness and stuff or like you might pigeonhole yourself, be it like the environment or be it you feeling that pressure? Did you feel that or to kind of create more black-centric pieces, feeling that kind of like your environment made you do that, to some extent? Or people expected to make that?

Alex Jackson 29:03

Totally? Yeah. No, for sure. I think um, yeah, I mean, that's something that affects everyone. I think every, any artist of color kind of has to deal with that. Like, and I think it's, there's there are natural progressions to everybody. Any, you know, they kind of choose where they want to be eventually, I think everybody has to work through that at some point. And I definitely felt that in school, but even in the work that I was making, like I felt an indifference towards it, too, like I I I felt I knew the importance of it. Like I knew why it mattered and why I felt that way but I also was like, irritated by it and felt like [resistant?] towards it. But yeah, that's definitely an 00:30:00experience. Because on one hand like you want to, like I was naturally interested in those things. But then you have to understand that like, there's not only like a projected expectation on you as an artist, and as a person, but also there are political implications that, in real world applications, when it comes to, you know, money, and you know, those are still things that we have to deal with. But, you know, when you have to, when you're thinking about the. When you think about the stuff, you have to really, it's good, because you're met with a lot of what the reality of it is. And I learned a lot from thinking about, like, I, you know, I was like a baby, it's like, 18, 19-years-old, you know. And there's a lot I didn't know. And when I was, when I had that pressure, to kind of think about those things, I learned a lot about the world, I learned a lot about history, and, and I wouldn't necessarily have gotten there. If I'd have just been like, you know, in lala land, you know. I think it's not necessarily a bad. I mean, it's a horrific experience, you know, it's a bad thing. It comes from a very, like, violent place. But it's not necessarily that, that it's more so that everybody should be thinking about that. And not just us, it's like the weight of it on, you know, it not being an open dialogue, but like a very internal one, most of the time. Yeah, you find you find ways to kind of, you know, and I will say that, I also like, I really like I cared about painting, and I really wanted to learn how to paint and draw. And so like, that was my primary concern. And yeah, eventually, you know, kind of like, recognize the issues with that. And kind of like, no, I want to either say like, I want to continue talking about this. Because, on one hand, if we don't, nobody will. Yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 33:06

From I guess, so you, you kind of talked about at the beginning, how, immediately, when you were an undergrad, you were always kind of looking outward? In terms of opportunity. So can you talk about what it was like for you to go to Italy that summer after your sophomore year?

Alex Jackson 33:26

Yeah. It was really amazing. I, I didn't really know much about it. I just knew that I wanted to study abroad. And that was the only like, art program that I that was openly like, available, and it was, you know, is heavily linked with the school. And so I was like, "Okay, well, I can like continue to paint at this place." So I was like, "Oh, I'll apply there." And it was in Florence. And, yeah, it was like a really great experience. I mean, I met like, other artists, and I met my partner there. And I actually, I made like, a really, you know, one of my best friends. We were roommates there. And he was really also similar, like, in a program where he worked really hard and really cared about what he was doing among people who, you know, were just kind of like, flopping around a little bit. And it was, like, one of the first moments where I met someone who was like, on the same page that I was, and we connect, you know, connect and we're still like, very close. And yeah, I saw some amazing painting there. Stuff I never thought I'd ever see. So that was pretty, pretty great.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 35:10

What was that like to, you know, go from Madison to Florence. And like, as a painter could you just, like, expand a little bit upon like how that experience maybe changed your practice, or gave you insight that you could see, like, a shift in your work.

Alex Jackson 35:35

Um, I think I mean, definitely, like, I don't know if it changed the direction of my work, necessarily. But it definitely, like made me just more kind of 00:36:00double down on. Like, my skill set, and learning more, because a lot of the painting that you're looking at, you know, it's not like, being in the US, a lot of the work that you're seeing is like, hundreds of years old, and a lot of it's from the church and from the Renaissance, and it's amazing painting, and there's, you know, modernist painting there too.

There was just like, amazing to see the craft of these, like, these objects, how they were built. And that was the first time that I really seen you know, I didn't grew up going to that, like art museums at all. Just wasn't something that we didn't have many here and I also just, we just didn't do that. So that was the first time that I, besides the museums of Madison that I like, went to and several like major art museums and saw like paintings that were that I had seen in books and stuff like that was pretty life changing.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 37:28

So then, post-Italy, you start your junior year in 2013. So what was that first semester like for you?

Alex Jackson 37:42

Yeah, I was like, I got back from Italy. And then it was like, very serious in the studio. I had started the, this is when I when I got back from Italy, I had my own studio in the Advanced Painting Workshop. And I just like I had those two paintings that I made myself me here that kind of set up like my practice, like in a way like I had in in that summer in Italy, like I kind of spent thinking I didn't really work on the things that I was interested in. I was just kind of like, there and making we made like, you know, [plein air?] paintings and onsite paintings, like the only painting that I did. When I got back, like I was, like, ready, like I kind of had, like, reflected on where I wanted to go next. And like that first paying, I really like got going and what was really, I mean, I mean a lot of work and a lot of progress in that first semester. I mean, a lot of paintings definitely like having my own space and that I could just be in all 00:39:00the time. And I was in the studio all the time. That and then that semester, I found out about two opportunities, several opportunities were. I didn't know what a residency was an artist's residency and I learned about that and was like, it was something that people were like, "Oh, you should apply for this thing." And that my second semester is when I applied to my first residency and got in and that really, like changed the course of everything because my work shifted a lot after that residency that I did.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 39:54

I'll ask more about the residency, but at the time did you also take on one of the black history classes or the fiction classes, and yeah, how did those shape your art?

Alex Jackson 40:12

Well I took the fiction writing class, yeah, my junior year. That first semester, I think. And then I think filmmaking I took that year as well. Yeah, I think I took all three of those classes that year. Um, well, the Black hHstory class, definitely, just like, I learned more about some of the, like, conditions that I was interested in living conditions, the history, the, and it helped me understand like, where I wanted to kind of like exist in the art world. And you know, this is more research on top of what I was already interested in. And fiction writing classes, I mean, and the filmmaking classes were definitely things that I'm interested in, they definitely become, at the time, I didn't really understand how they could be a part of like, what I was doing in my studio. And they are all interested in the same kind of like ideas that they, you know, they exist, they don't separate, in separate spaces for me, and then it wasn't into, it's not really until, like, you know, maybe five years ago or something that I, I use all those. Well, I use writing, you know, creative writing as part of like, what I mainly focus on now, but yeah, back then it was like, completely separate, but very, like, I learned so much. And it was just 00:42:00exciting. There are things that I was very invested in before but didn't really have resources to explore.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 42:15

So from that I noticed in 2013, you have a lot of exhibitions. Ah, can you talk about the 100, 100 State Street Gallery?

Alex Jackson 42:30

Yeah. So there was a, someone I went to PEOPLE Program with named Carlos. And Carlos had a gift for kind of like organizing and getting people together and hosting events. And he was from the Madison area. So he had a lot of like, ties to the community there. And he organized several exhibitions, I think, like kind of one a year he would put on, or maybe twice a year, he put on these little shows, at spaces in Madison, I think yeah one was at 100 State Street. And we were able to, I'm not sure what 100 State was, it might have been just like a creative space, or something. But we have these shows with music and friends, you know, we're also so PEOPLE Program and a lot of the like, diversity, inclusion, like First Wave, yeah, First Wave, POSSE. All of those folks were kind of like, we knew each other. Those are like the groups where all the brown people were primarily. So there's a lot of like, First Wave performances, like a bunch of artists from the art school, like we would hang work, there was food. And it was just a space where everybody kind of got together and it was like fun, you know, dancing. They usually were like one night, and the show would be up for like a day. And then we would pack up everything and go back the next, you know, next day, but yeah, they're really, really fun. It was the only thing kind of like that, where it brought together folks from the community and Madison was I would say it was like pretty open to the community, like the school was, you know, you could come on campus, you could go on to the building and it wasn't hard to get people to interact, you know, and come to events and things like that. But yeah, was kind of the only event where it was like you interacted with the Madison community, the student body and then visual artists and and performance stuff that was happening all kind of like emerged and became 00:45:00like one thing usually it was kind of like you go to these events, but they're all kind of like no one came to the art school, you know? Unless you knew like one person, like even my friends that were outside are like no one really came to like shows that I mean they just people in the art department. So it was good to expand that.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 45:32

Another show I saw was 22 Minds, One House. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Alex Jackson 45:40

Yeah. So that junior year. Was it junior year? Sophomore year, I believe. There is this artist Faisal. Who's someone I didn't mention a question you asked me Faisal Abdul Allah, who is a faculty member now, was a visiting artist. He was. He's from London. He led the colloquium series. And as part of the visiting artists residency, they also teach one class. And he's, you know, he's kind of interdisciplinary. He works across performance, and printmaking, and installation. So you taught this class with Professor, Professor Henry Druhl. He was in the Art History Department. All right. Yeah. And focused on primarily like African Art History and Indian Art History, taught this class that was a combination of like, writers and poets, spoken word, folks from First Wave and from the Art Department. And it was this interdisciplinary class where we just explored a lot of different we, we were dancing, we did photography. We did printmaking. We did performance work. And at the end, it kind of all culminated in the show. That was, we did a performance piece at the Madison Museum of Contemporary Art and the Chazen Museum. So that's what that show, there were 22 people. And it was kind of like, structured on the Bauhaus projects. So yeah, that was.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 47:46

And then I guess, before we talk about your summer, before senior year, are there any other notable pieces you made or people who you, like, spent time with that you think are worth mentioning?

Alex Jackson 48:02

I definitely got to know my faculty more that year, spent a lot more time, you know, with people like Fred, and Leslie Smith, you know, the Advanced Painting Workshop faculty, they changed every semester. So I got to work with different people. And I'd say it's a big shift, like that year where I felt like, my professors are more like peers then and mentors than like, teachers. And I mean, I mean, a lot of that whole, all the work that I made that year was like, really important work to me. Yeah, really, like changed my. The courts have everything. You know, because that summer, that summer after that is when it when did that residency that changed everything.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 49:07

So now talking about that residency? Can you talk a little bit about it. Yeah, and about like your time that like the Yale Norfolk Summer School of Art.

Alex Jackson 49:19

Yeah. So that's a program that's for seniors, or juniors entering their senior year. And I, you know, I didn't know anything about it. And Leslie, who went to Yale, as an MFA student, who was a professor was like, "Oh, you should apply to this, this thing and you have to be nominated for it." And they're like, "Do you want to be nominated?" And I was like, "Yeah. What is it like? I don't know what that is." There were two of them. There's something called Skowhegan School of Art and there's Norfolk. And Norfolk, I was, you know, I put the eligibility requirements, but Skowhegan was something you have to be 21 to attend. And it's, you know, they're both Scott Ian's a huge deal. You know, it only accepts 65 people a summer and it's very, you know, it's a very people apply to it year after year after year. But yeah, Norfolk I applied, it was a really special time because that if I hadn't been working so hard, like I wouldn't have been, I wouldn't the opportunity would have presented it so. And so yeah, all that work that I made, you know, it wasn't I wasn't working towards getting something I was just trying to get better what I was doing, and it just happened to line up with the opportunity to apply for this thing. And I went, and it was, it's 00:51:00through as a program, a residency program. That was kind of like a free graduate school prep thing that Yale ran in northern Connecticut. And yeah, it really, that was the first time that I like, understood, that I was part of like, a larger dialogue that was happening. Because in Madison, it kind of felt like, you're in this bubble a little bit like the art scene, you know, it was so small, there wasn't, there wasn't a gallery world, there weren't kind of the, it just got so much more localized and small, you know, like, to exist and be an artist somewhere, like that just felt like something that you you did, but it wasn't something that you could survive doing. Who knows? I, you know, when I, I think it was like 26 other students that get into Norfolk that are nominated. And I met people that, you know, from the east coast, and students that knew about all these opportunities, and these artists, and I just didn't have I didn't know what a lot of these things were until I went there. And then I also received a lot of great critical feedback on what I was doing what I was a part of, you know, as an artist, the dialogue that I was interested in participating in, in the world, and understanding like, what, how serious it really was, from a like, conceptual point of view and political kind of point of view, like the importance of it. And yeah, it was like, a life changing time and space. Because after that, like I really started to understand, like, what the underpinnings and consequences of what I was doing was. And after that, you know, I got back that summer, and I completely shifted my entire, like, framework around what I was doing, and that really, like push me forward into several different directions that have influenced like, where I'm at now.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 54:04

Going off of that, and how kind of after that experience, your framework shifted. So can you talk a bit about your first semester of senior year?

Alex Jackson 54:17

So after Norfolk, you know, one of the major conversations, you know, I this is the first time I met like, young black artists that were you know, so the, the TA's at Norfolk were graduate students at the Yale MFA program. And there were, you know, two students there who really like pushed me and understood what I was trying to do what I was thinking about, and also were like, very, you know, critical in a helpful way of being like, "Well, this is, you know, kind of, like, these are some of the issues that you might come out of the way that you're thinking about this." And one of those things was like, I was like painting about myself, but I was using other people to do that. And so it's like, oh, how can I work from like a really personal place rather than using, like my friends to talk about my experience. And so I like eliminated painting from people that I knew about eliminated painting from photographs. And was just focused, like I started creating like a fictional kind of like space. And started thinking about, like, my own experience in a more direct way. And so when I got back, I like I decided, I was like, I'm gonna apply to grad school right away.

And I have, like, four months to do that. So I got back from Norfolk. And I made completely dropped everything, and I was doing and made a whole new body of work in four months, without any of the like, structure that I had before. So I'm just starting kind of fresh, because I was like, I don't, I'm painting from drawings only. I'm not using any references, no photographic references. And so that was a big hardship, because, you know, I was in the studio, like 20 hours a day, every day. My girlfriend, she, she had moved to New York. And so I was flying out to New York, like, once a month to kind of like rest and I was being supposed to work in the scene of and visiting people from Norfolk and visiting graduate school programs. Seeing work in New York, for the first time, you know, going to the gallery. She lived right by the gallery, Chelsea Galleries scene, 00:57:00seeing, like, stuff that I I just didn't know about and seeing work at the coming out of the like, kind of space that I wanted to be in. And yeah, I just really worked really hard that that first semester. Like really, unhealthly worked, but made like, huge strides.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 57:39

So I'll get back to the grad school experience. But then so in the meantime, since you were still taking classes and a senior, what do you see that the pieces that you're making for your portfolio? Were those kind of could you use those are like, your pieces per class? Or how was that in terms of like, what was your body of? How was your body of work related to your classes at the time?

Alex Jackson 58:11

Yeah, well, at that time, I think I just like I had so many, I had enough credit, I didn't need to, like, I could have graduated that semester. But I basically just like, stayed in the art department at a advanced painting workshop, which is like, do what you want, there is no, we just have critique. That's all. That's all the only thing that you're responsible for. So I pretty much just had that class and probably like, I think a printmaking class or, you know, sculpture class. And those are pretty low stakes, like they were intro level. I didn't have to spend much time on them. I just like painted in my studio, so anything that I was doing in there was just, we had a critique and a conversation about it, but I wasn't, I was primarily just working on my portfolio that whole semester. That was it.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 59:09

So then, fast forward, like at the end of the semester, you submit your grad school applications, and then second semester starts. So can you talk a little bit about that, and then hearing back from schools and then deciding on a grad school?

Alex Jackson 59:27

Yeah, so that's semester and get everything in. And I don't, I don't think I made any paintings. My spring semester, I was so burned out. I had many questions like I didn't know where to go next. So I just I think I made drawings and prints all semester. And I just waited. I had an interview at Columbia. So Yale, where I ended up going to school. You have to send, you have to send your 01:00:00work, you have to send a few pieces of your work to your interview. So requires you to ship everything out, pay for it, and fly out and be there and ship it back. So that was a process that happens like March, and I didn't find out until like April, and then I interviewed at Columbia as well, which doesn't require you to do all that. But you have to be there in-person for the interview. I pretty much and I really just took it easy that last semester. And yeah, I don't really do anything. But relax and wait. But I also applied to, it's crazy, like things can really change really change, things can change really quickly in the art world is not really like any other profession. Because when people if you're making good work, and people see it, like that's all it takes, all it takes is one painting, or one body of work when people like know who you are, like want to see more. And so like I made all that work in that four month period that no one ever saw. And then I just applied to all these things with it. So I applied to School, I applied to Skowhegan, the residency, and I applied to this catalog called New American Paintings. And I got all three of them when like the same week. And that really, like changed the like course of my life, until this day, like the gallery that I'm represented by now is the publisher of New American Paintings who saw my work through that I have a good relationship with him. And that's how I've been showing. And Skowhegan I got into which was kind of crazy to think about a huge like community that I became a part of, and like I'm, you know, I'm going to be teaching like a class at the Art Institue of Chicago this next week, and like that, I got that through a Skowhegan faculty member that I worked with when I was there. So things kind of like, really shifted my life in a way that I would be that and have the having the freedom that I have now, but I didn't know that. That's how it was gonna work. I just you kind of hear about these things. And you don't really everybody's like, Oh, you have to apply this thinking like, okay, that's what people do. Sure, I'll do it. You know? Like, I 01:03:00heard about New American Paintings through a grad student, who is a TA for my Intro to Painting Class. And she's like, I've been applying to this thing, like every year, and I've never gotten it or whatever. And I was like, "Okay, cool. Like, I want to apply to that." And then it happened, you know? So yeah, that was a great semester, because it was all the work that I had. All the torture, I put myself through it, it paid off. And after I graduated, I went straight to Skowhegan. And after that, I went straight to Yale. And yeah.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 1:03:43

Um, before asked some final questions, jumping back. So did you have a senior show? Could you talk little bit about that.

Alex Jackson 1:03:54

Yeah. So every, well, every semester the advanced painting workshop. So I was actually in the advanced planning workshop for four semesters, which you're only allowed to do three. But luckily, there were there was, there were people didn't apply to it. Like there weren't a lot of applicants to try to get in the space. And so me and another person like we were actually able to stay our last semester and have a studio and there were still empty spaces in there. Even with us in there for an extra semester. So kind of lucked out in it. But every semester, there's a show for the people who are in the workshop. And so I had that show. And then I had, you know, there's the BFA Thesis Show, which is a group show of all makes everybody think I probably showed like Four of the Big, big things that I made for my portfolio. It was nice because it was a, you know, it wasn't a defense or anything. I think maybe we had like a critic or something come, but it wasn't. Your thesis show wasn't test whether you would, or maybe it was. I didn't think about it. But it was more celebratory than anything.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 1:05:32

So now almost six years since you've graduated, and now I like as an artist and as a faculty member and as a visiting artist, how do you see how your time at Madison has shaped you? I mean, like, you could say, like, this whole interview is kind of a testament like test of that. But how do you continue to see the influence Madison had on you?Today?

Alex Jackson 1:06:00

Yeah, um, I definitely feel like I, like the amount of, like, freedom and space 01:06:00that I had at Madison to, like, practice and do what I in the privacy in the, the privacy, which allows for the ability to, like fail an experiment, and definitely like, had impacted the way that I it's like a aspirational kind of space to me. Because it's, it represents a space where, like, you can really devote yourself to moving forward in your work and growing and learning. And I kind of try to keep that same attitude. When I'm working in my spaces, wherever I am now. And it was very different from like, somewhere where I went to Yale and and, you know, they both have their benefits, like I got a very critical and intense experience in grad school. Madison was like, the opposite of that, it was intense, because I made it intense. And I worked hard, because I, I'm very, I learned a big lesson, in Madison was that no matter where you go to school, or whatever resources you have, it's like, it's kind of up to you to make it what it is. And Madison was able to kind of provide me with some great resources for me to like, turn that experience into like, one that benefited and gave me exactly what I needed. That wouldn't have necessarily. It is like everything was like at my fingertips, all these great makers to talk to have this great visiting artists curious to talk to a great art library that I could check out books from and just how to use it. So I try to take that same approach to any institution or opportunity that I have. Now,

SOPHIA ABRAMS 1:08:48

um, well, I think we've covered about all the questions I had. Do you have any last thoughts that you think are important to add to the project?

Alex Jackson 1:09:07

No, I think I think your questions were great. I think this project is really cool. So I appreciate you thinking of me. And I'm glad to be a part of it. Especially in the context of the university, and it's important to have these things documented, because if we don't document then nobody else will. So thank you.

SOPHIA ABRAMS 1:09:38

Well, thank you for allowing me to interview you today. I really appreciate it. Um, so in terms of next steps, I'm just gonna end this recording.