Interview with Eunice Jewell

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1844

JEWELL, EUNICE

JEWELL, EUNICE (1925-)

Interviewed: 2019

Interviewer: Lea Goldstone

Index by: Lea Goldstone, Sophie Clark

Transcribed by: Teresa Bergen

Length: 76 minutes

First Interview Session (February 27, 2019): Digital File

00:00:00

LG: Today is February 27, 2019. My name is Lea Goldstone. And I'm interviewing Eunice Jewell. We're here in Dodgeville, Wisconsin, and this is an in-person interview. This is being conducted for the Madison General School of Nursing Alumni Oral History Project, spanning 1905 to 1982. And for sound quality purposes, could you please say your name and spell your last name?

EJ: My name is Eunice Jewell. Jewell is spelled J-e-w-e-l-l.

LG: Perfect. So just describe some of your background for me.

EJ: Well, I always lived on a farm. Except if you want way background, I was born at Crandon, Wisconsin. It was a farm, but we lived on Lake Metonga. But we moved to southern Wisconsin and always on a farm. First it was Black Earth, then 00:01:00it was Arena, and then it was Clyde, and then it was Cobb. And since I've been married, Dodgeville is our address.

LG: What kind of farming did you engage in when you were younger?

EJ: Growing up, we always had a dairy farm. So we grew, farming oats and hay, I guess. And since I've been married, it was never a dairy farm. But we always raised hogs. Hogs was our big production thing. We had seven kids and put them all through college. (laughs) But hogs are gone now. And actually my son is 00:02:00farming the farm, and it's corn and beans. So that's all the animals, except the dog and cats on the farm. (laughs)

LG: Got you. So did anything in your background guide you towards nursing? Or what did lea you that way?

EJ: Well, I had two aunts that were nurses. And I think that one aunt was my dad's sister. And she was always a favorite aunt of all of us. And as I remember, she just did private duty nursing, in hospital, mostly. And the other aunt was by marriage. And I think she had done more nursing programs and not 00:03:00directly with patients. So.

LG: And did you, as you were young, get to see a lot of good stuff that they did? Or did you just kind of know from that that was something you were interested in?

EJ: It was just interesting. My Aunt Mame was always a favorite person. But I never saw either of them in their active nursing, where they would work for wages or anything.

LG: So what was your perception of nursing school before you went there?

00:03:50

EJ: You mean Madison General in particular?

LG: Yes.

EJ: Well I knew of one of my high school classmates went to Madison General. And 00:04:00she'd gone to the University of Dubuque and then transferred there. She still is apparently in the program that took her there, that took her to Madison General. And I had gone to the University of Wisconsin with a, supposedly a degree in chemistry. But I decided I didn't want to be a chemist or a teacher, so I took an exam to see where I might, what would be good for me. And basically I had two things. The top thing was a physician. And I thought well no little farm girl is going to be a big physician. (laughs) And it had nursing as the second thing. So that really convinced me that's what I should do.

LG: And did it live up to your expectations? Were you happy that you went?

EJ: I've never regretted it. I might have some Mondays, (laughter) but on the whole, it provided a good education for me that I could earn money. And had seven children, and it helped. (laughs) It guided me though raising kids. Having babies and raising kids.

LG: So what years did you attend Madison General?

EJ: Well, I'm not sure.

LG: Just even roughly.

EJ: Well, I graduated from high school in '43 and I think I graduated from nurses training in '49. So the last few years have been '46 to '49, I guess.

LG: And what were your first impressions of Madison when you were there for school?

EJ: Well I think I knew Madison pretty well. I had always felt that Madison was up and coming city. And it didn't have a bad name. And I knew families that lived there. And the lakes always intrigued me. And used to go there to theaters sometimes. It was good. So probably a lot of other things, but right now that's--they had museums, too, and I always liked museums.

LG: And had you visited Madison a lot when you were younger, before you went there for school?

EJ: Well I had been there quite a bit. As a little girl, when we lived at Black Earth, that was close to Madison. And we used to go there. And we would go to Vilas Park, and that type of thing. That was Great Depression, so we didn't do much shopping. It was just more for leisure time, I guess.

LG: And how large was your class size? Roughly.

EJ: I was afraid you'd ask me that. (laughter) I would guess we were 15 to 17 people, but--

LG: So relatively small, then.

EJ: Relatively small. Yeah, we knew each other, been to each other's homes.

00:08:07

LG: And did you live in the dorms?

EJ: Yes. At first we lived in, building, I'll say it was called Rest Harrow.

LG: Could you spell that for me? actually, I had a couple other people mention that and I wasn't sure.

EJ: I think it's Rest, like r-e-s-t. And I think it's H-a-r-r-o-w.

LG: Okay. Perfect.

EJ: And that was quite a, it was a big house that was remodeled for students. And I think it had three floors. And it was a good place to get acquainted. We had a house mother, and her name was Miss Sidel. And she always watched us 00:09:00pretty close, that no men came up in our rooms or anything. Then they moved. And it was just around the corner, I think it was on, it was around the corner from McConnell Hall. And then we moved to McConnell Hall. And most of the students, nursing students, were there. And then they were overcrowded. And so some of us, they think they could trust, we moved to hospital annex. And so we lived in the hospital annex probably for a year. So there were, I think maybe four or five of us in the, women interns lived there, too. And also a lady who worked in the 00:10:00office. Her name was Kaya Omen?. And she was disabled in some manner, and I don't remember how it was. But she kind of took us under her wing and pretended she was our house mother. So we met with her and confided in her. And she was a good person to have there for us.

LG: And while you were in McConnell Hall, what were some of the like recreational activities that you did with your friends?

EJ: Well, a lot of girls played bridge, but I wasn't among them. And they did have a dance, I think, maybe just once a year. And that was a big deal. And I 00:11:00remember I was going steady and engaged to my husband-to-be. And he had a lot of friends, and there were girls that didn't have dates. So I remember one time in particular, he brought up like five friends for girls that didn't have dates. So that was kind of fun.

LG: So kind of moving towards training aspect of school, just describe some of like the technical training that you had. Like what were your classes like?

EJ: Well, when I first went of course it was more, I'm sure there's a name to it, it was more nursing directly. You know, we learned how to take pulses and blood pressures and charting and being accurate. When we first went on the 00:12:00floor, we took care of flowers. And we took care of plants and flowers that we set out at night. And we had to water them and take them back to the patients. So that was our first jobs.

And then the first real job that I had, I'm remembering that another girl and I were, there were a couple of girls, anyway, she was about the youngest, and I know I was the oldest, because I'd been out three years before the nurses training. But anyway, we had to clean a bed. That was our first job. And so we very diligently cleaned this bed. And there were little round springs in a 00:13:00little circle. And we took Q-tips and cleaned inside of the springs, so I know there wasn't a bug on it when we got through. (laughs) And then I had heard that there'd been a person with some contagious disease in there. So I said that if they had a contagious disease, this bed should go outdoors in the sun for a while. So they let me put it out in the sun for a while. (laughter) Anyway, I guess it was pretty well sterilized by the time a patient got in it. And I think that was just the beginning. What was the end of your question?

00:13:51

LG: Just kind of what you remember about your classes.

EJ: Oh, my classes. Well, we had the main nurse, and I'm sure she had a title. 00:14:00We didn't really like her. But I think she taught us well. She taught us how to do the, you know, like pulse and blood pressure and that kind of thing. When we were told that our hair couldn't be hanging out around our collars, we had to have our hair off our collars, and it could either be cut short or in a hair net or in braids. My hair was long, too. But I usually wore mine in braids, so that was what I did. And then afterwards, teachers, is that what I'm--

LG: Yeah.

EJ: Anyway, then we had, I think there was one particular nurse did teach us how to give baths and bedpans and to chart. We were kind of spooked at times. Sometimes we got patients that had syphilis or something that we didn't want to catch. (laughs) And had hardly heard about. But we dealt with it and I guess did okay. And then of course we had OB. And it was like that one incident I was thinking about before you came. There was a, most of the doctors were from Madison. But there was this young doctor from Mount Horeb. And he had this 00:16:00patient that was delivering. And it delivered chin first and started crying with only his chin out and his lungs working. And he was spooked and we were all spooked. And very fortunately, there was a doctor, Dr. Leonard, that was a specialist in OB was in the hospital. And so he knew how to deliver for this delivery. So I always had a good feeling toward Dr. Leonard and knew that a specialist had their purpose.

Then they had surgery, of course. Is this where you want me to go?

LG: Yeah. No, you're doing great.

EJ: Anyway, I always enjoyed surgery. And it was usually the patient's doctor 00:17:00and they had doctor, two doctors always worked together. And the resident was there and interns were there. And there were so many doctors around the table. Anyway, one time there was just one doctor and I was the scrub nurse. And he put out his hand for the next instrument and I popped a, you're supposed to smack them good, you know. And he said, "I didn't want this damn thing." And he threw it at me and hit me. And I started to cry. (laughs) Much later, he apologized. He wasn't very quick on the draw for that. But I did like surgery. I could see 00:18:00what was happening inside of a body and what they did.

LG: And this was all while you were a student?

00:18:11

EJ: That's all while I was a student. And of course we always had injuries and people that came from just off the street, you know. And then one thing while I was a student, we all were supposed to see an autopsy. And I don't remember how that was selected for us to see. Of course, it wasn't the usual thing, anyway. This one patient I had taken care of the night before and visited with her and talked to her about her family. And the next morning, "Miss Barker, you have to 00:19:00go watch this autopsy." And it was this lady. It was very difficult. (crying) Even when I think about it today. I'd just visited with her. And then at the autopsy, this is the only part I really remember. But the first thing the intern would do, he put the lid up over her eye and said, "Blue eyes." So that apparently was the first part of an autopsy, is to know what color the patient's eyes were.

When we had children, and I liked that, but it sort of spooked me because you know, they had their life ahead of them, and some of them were really sick. And 00:20:00I remember one little boy and I came in and he said, "Miss Barker, I love you." (laughs) So I guess the feeling is mutual.

The kind of patients, I guess that's kind of-- Was there any other part that I maybe should--

LG: You covered a lot. Thank you for that. Is there anything else you can remember that kind of sticks out to you about your training or anything?

EJ: Let's see. Well, one thing is that you had to do it three times before you'd remember it. And I kind of felt that was true. We did live in the, or I think I 00:21:00said, in the annex for a while, which was just a couple doors down from the hospital. Once in a while, some visitors would have to come up to the annex where our rooms were. But it was not a big deal. And let's see, I wrote some notes. I don't know if any--I can't read it. One thing, we weren't supposed to work for wages. I could go home and milk cows. Anyway, before I went in the 00:22:00nurses training, I worked for a photographer in Dodgeville. And I was his colorist. That was before the time when you took pictures, it was all black and white. So anyway, they have what they call brown tone, I think, gold tone, something like that. That was a new thing. But you painted and colorize cheeks. One thing we did do, that you had to be, but there wasn't nursing involved, this was a pretty well-known photographer. And servicemen would come and they'd have their ribbons. And you had to be so careful you had the right colors on the right places on the ribbons.

Anyway, then leading from that, at Madison General, we weren't supposed to work. But my family wasn't, didn't give me a lot of extra money to do things. And it was getting Christmastime and I was on State Street and I noticed a photographer's window that said, "Colorist needed." So I went in and applied for the job. And I told him I was kind of limited when I could work. But anyway, I did work there. Of course, I didn't tell anybody at the hospital.

And then I remember the one thing it got my mom was a little end table. And I still have it. (laughs)

Well, another thing I could tell about when I was there. My dad died when I was 00:24:00in nurses' training. And that, of course, was difficult for me. But they stopped classes till I came back. So I thought that was really generous of them. And they didn't say, "You have time off for the funeral," or, "You can stay a week," and I don't remember when I did stay, but I know it was probably over a week I stayed. And they stopped classes for me, so, or stopped classes for everybody. So that was generous of them.

Any more follow-up questions?

LG: Were there any like faculty members that you remember in particular that kind of affected your school at this point?

00:25:03

EJ: Faculty members?

LG: Yeah. Like any teachers.

EJ: Well, this gal that was kind of on our, not top of our list, her name was Miss Sobloki. And maybe it's because she just made us do things that we didn't want to do. (laughs) But anyway, I think she was from Milwaukee. And I think her brother was some kind of political person.

And then another one we really liked was Miss Sobotka. And afterwards, there was some big event and she came back. And we just all claimed her.

And head of the nurses was Miss Collings. And she always said what we could do 00:26:00and what we couldn't do. And one thing we couldn't do, if we had ice cream, we must never lick it. We had to bite it. (laughs) They would sit at one end of the dining room. The rest, it would be students and other staff people would sit otherwise, we had to behave. (laughs)

But one thing about the dining, when we lived in the annex, the kitchen was just two floors down. So we'd go down in the evening. And the residents and interns were down there and would eat and visit them. Tell jokes and whatever. Talk about patients, probably. And Miss Evans was the head of, director, head of the 00:27:00nursing group. And I think we always respected her. She was pleasant and she had authority, but anyway, we liked her. And we got acquainted with the staff that was cleaning the floors. You know, we didn't really feel we were above them.

And so then one time we had physicals, you know, once a year or twice a year. And my white blood count was really high. Of course, we all shared that with 00:28:00each other. Interns were joking that maybe you should take my appendix out or something. Within a week I had appendicitis. (laughs) So I had emergency surgery. And during the surgery I said, then they gave me a spinal so I was awake through it. I said to the anesthetist, "I've got this funny pain in my chest." And so she gave me more oxygen. And later I found out why I had this funny pain in my chest. The intern that was scrubbed in always put his elbow on the patient's chest. (laughs) So he could sort of relax at the table, I guess. But I found out why I had that chest pain.

So, let's see. Any more questions, I guess?

LG: Yeah. I just always wait just to see if there's anything else. Could you describe any like ceremonies that you had while you were in school that you can remember? Like any kind of, I don't know, like any ritual things?

00:29:37

EJ: Well, one of the big things was our capping ceremony. So we got our caps. And so then we could wear them. And what they did as, I don't remember how long, what the timing of that was before we got our caps. But I guess we were probies 00:30:00before, and then we got our caps. And then as we were seniors, we got a black band to put on our caps. And I always kind of felt bad because every school of nursing has their cap. And a lot of schools of nursing would get the band when they graduated. But when we graduated, we had to take ours off. And oh, darn, I wish it was still there. (laughs)

When we first went in nurses training, they took us to a shoe store down on State Street. And we were not told exactly what shoe to get, but it was the 00:31:00general idea of what we should get. And of course we had to pay for them our self.

And speaking of pay, the class before, or several classes before me, there was a cadet nurses program and the nurses got a stipend. And I think it was, in my memory it was 18 dollars a month, so that was pretty special. And if I'd gone into nurses' program in the three years that I had been on this high school, I would have been good, I probably can't even [unclear] add to it. (phone ringing) 00:32:00Was I where I needed to go on?

LG: Yeah. Just if there was anything else that you would want to describe about your time in Madison that stuck out to you.

EJ: Well I think our group were, maybe all the groups, were close. And we'd do things together. And we were not to ever go overnight without telling them where we were, and not having permission from our parents to go. So we basically had everybody, everybody could go anywhere with our classmates. And we would visit them. And I do remember that I did some visiting. I had an uncle that had died 00:33:00in Freeport. And I went to his funeral. And afterwards I had a day or so off and went back. My aunt wasn't the best housekeeper, so I helped her clean her house. So, I guess that's all I can think of for that.

LG: Great. So tell me a little bit about your career in nursing after you graduated.

EJ: Well, I'll lead up to that. (laughs) I was engaged to be married. And I had a job in Dodgeville at Saint Joseph's Hospital. But when, after I'd had my state 00:34:00boards, anyway, with my state board, and I know I had got the best of all my classmates. (laughs) You know we had compared our scores. But in mine there was also an invitation to apply for a job. And I often wondered what that job might have been. But of course I was going to get married and I had a job already. Just remembering it, it was kind of intriguing. Because nobody else got this invitation. It was just me. (laughs)

But so what I did, I worked at Saint Joe's. And they especially wanted somebody 00:35:00in OB. And so although I did some floor duty, it was mostly OB. And well, they also wanted me for surgery, because I had, the senior period I'd spent in surgery. But I did floor duty and wasn't Catholic, and I'd never worked with the nuns before. But they were nice, and we were good friends. But you know, it was a little different because their life was different than mine.

And then the other hospital in Dodgeville, the general hospital, getting back, so then I did go to, they were begging me to come and help. And actually, when I 00:36:00was there I was, I don't think was when I first went, but then I was, I had some kind of title that made me charge nurse of nursing. Director of nurses, I guess it was. And I did, and then when I was there, when I first went, they had a retired lady that was a doctor of anesthesiology. And she taught me the ins and outs of anesthetics. And so I gave anesthetics there for quite some time. Maybe as long as I was, I don't remember. I did all of this kind of between babies. (laughs)

And then I guess maybe I had retired from there and decided that I could go back 00:37:00in nursing. And my mom was a patient at Bloomfield Manor, which is a nursing home. And so they were desperate for nurses, too. So I went to work there. One little funny thing, family funny thing. When I said, well, we really didn't need the money. And I said what to my, I had seven kids, but there were two younger girls at that time that were still in grade school, I think. So my youngest daughter said, "Well, maybe you could buy some more food."

And I said, "Oh, that sounds like a good idea. I could get more fresh fruit and 00:38:00everything." Later she confessed to me that she'd meant maybe I'd get more pretzels and candy and that kind of thing. (laughs)

So then I did work there for quite a while. I was a charge nurse. But I wasn't aiming for anything more. It was good to work while my mom was there. I could see her every day. I usually planned my meals so I could eat with her. So that was good.

And I think in the community I was something in nursing, I can't remember what. 00:39:00(laughs) It wasn't a county nurse, but it was in a homemakers, I was, I think, health officer, or something like that. So, was that that question?

00:39:17

LG: No, perfect. What were some of like your most memorable moments as a nurse? Do you remember any that stick out?

EJ: My most memorable moments as a nurse? So many of them. I mean, and I think maybe I've even mentioned some. The gratitude of patients that they have, some 00:40:00spoken and some unspoken. And I don't think any world news making, nothing is, just, and then I know people would call me after I was retired. You know, "What do you think about this?" Or, "What do you think about that?" So even in retirement, I guess people still look for my advice and opinion.

LG: And what advice would you give to like nursing students now or in the future?

EJ: Well, I would guess that most nursing students probably just think of a job 00:41:00with, maybe locally. And caring for patients. And it certainly has its rewards. But I'm thinking sort of of two things. One of my granddaughters started out as a nurse. I don't know if she ever quite got there, but she's now a physician. So it was sort of a steppingstone. And I remember one time being on a plane and talking to a man, what do you do, oh, I was a nurse. And he said, "You know, I 00:42:00was a nurse." And he also had started out as a nurse and then turned to be a doctor. I think he was a doctor of pediatrics or something. And my granddaughter's just a general practitioner. So anyway, I guess if they have ideas that they might specialize, I think that's good. If they plan to do like community nurse or local community nursing, or maybe in the community, of course, there's nurses that go out in the community. And I had kind of thought of that, and be like a county nurse or something. But I didn't do it. So. And I 00:43:00guess I would just say follow your interests, what you're interested in. Just use that as your guide.

00:43:24

LG: And what, last question, what do you miss most about being at Madison General?

EJ: What, Madison General?

LG: Mm hmm.

EJ: Well you know, Madison General today and Madison General is quite a different thing. And I remember one time I visited a relative that was there. And we always gave our patients back rubs. And she was kind of a heavy, heavy 00:44:00woman. And she perspired. And she just wasn't comfortable. And I said, "Do they give you back rubs?" No, nobody had ever even offered.

So I went to the nurses station and I said, "When I was here, we gave back rubs if they needed it." And so they started giving her back rubs. (laughs)

And this is [unclear] but it's a good tip. My son was traveling with his wife and their, her mother was away from home and they were visiting her and she had to go to the hospital. And afterwards he said, "When you go to the hospital," and I can't think of the exact term he used, but he said, "Be sure that you've got an advocate there with you." And apparently they were going to send her home 00:45:00without reading all the documents and so forth. So I guess, I think nurses quite often would get the job as being an advocate if they were among them.

So, and I don't remember. I think I got swayed from my question. But anyway.

LG: It's all right. Do you have anything else, like in your notes or anything, that you want to share before I conclude the interview?

EJ: Let me see. I can't read this. I'm not a good writer. I tried to print it so it would be plainer. Just one of my things I didn't mention. The doctor was 00:46:00always much higher than the nurse. And if we were at a nurses station and you were charting, if a doctor came, you stood up until he told you you could sit down. But I think it's changed. (laughs) I know it's changed. Anyway, that was the law. The doctors were the higher-ups, and we were pretty low on the totem 00:47:00pole. I've got death here, and I can't remember. I think it's that deaths were always difficult. I grieved with the family. But anyway, I guess, tell me your 00:48:00question again?

LG: Oh, I was just asking if there was anything else you wanted to add.

EJ: If there was anything else. No. Well, one thing we did do, and I put a kink in it. I don't know if this was once a week or, I don't think it was every morning. But we would get together and sing hymns. And I think it was Miss [Sobotka?], that was her duty to choose the hymns. Anyway, I am not a singer, 00:49:00but I always liked to sing. And I liked hymns. And so I complained that she just had us sing the first verse, and then we'd go on to another one. I said, "I wish we'd sing all the verses or most of them." So she reluctantly did it and complained about it. (laughs) I said, if we get up to sing, why don't we do more one verse and run away? So. But it was a good, Madison General, I don't have any complaints. So that was a good opportunity for me to learn. And I think I did well. And I think I told, maybe I didn't, that they said that the students from 00:50:00university always got the top grades. But Madison General was always second. So I guess we were well taught.

LG: Great. Well, if that is all that you'd like for this interview, I'll conclude this one. And just so you know, and for the record, I'll be contacting you with release forms. And if there's anything else you can think of, we can talk about doing another kind of shorter follow-up interview. But thank you for letting me interview you today.

EJ: You're welcome.

50:38

End First Interview Session (February 27, 2019)

Begin Second Interview Session (June 14, 2019): Digital File

LG: So, today is June 14th. My name is Lea Goldstone and I'm interviewing Eunice Jewell. This is a follow-up phone interview being conducted for the Madison General School of Nursing Alumni Oral History Project, 1905-1982. So, what do 00:51:00you remember about the cadet nurses program?

EJ: About the nursing program?

LG: The cadet nurses program.

EJ: (laughs) At this time, checking my hearing aid. Okay. Ask me the question again, please.

LG: Sorry. What do you remember about the cadet nurses program?

EJ: Well, I missed it. I was jealous. To give you the background, I was the oldest in my class. And one of my high school classmates was in it. And she had gone to University of Dubuque. And then she graduated with a bachelor's degree. And I had gone to the University of Wisconsin and I had also done some other 00:52:00work that didn't relate in any way. I painted pictures. I worked for a photographer. They didn't have colored pictures in those days. So anyway, this friend of mine that went to the University of Dubuque, she was in the cadet nurses program because she went there and she graduated and she had a bachelor's degree. However, I missed out. So I [unclear] and I was a year or two after her, I can't remember which it was. And I had an RN, which I was pretty proud of.

LG: So, the cadet nurses program was also a degree program, unlike the nursing 00:53:00program you had?

00:02:19

EJ: Well, because she had gone to the University of Dubuque. And somehow it related to graduating from Madison General to the University of Dubuque, so she got a degree.

LG: Okay. That makes sense. Did your family or friends have any opinions or feelings about you going to nursing school? Or was it just general accepting?

EJ: Oh, I think it, I had nurses on both side of my mom's side and my dad's side in my heritage. And they were very well thought of. So it was, my going there, I'm sure, was very positive for both my mom and dad.

LG: So earlier in our first interview, you said that you weren't interested in pursuing any job like as a physician versus a nurse. Was work as a physician widely available for women at the time that you went? Or was it mostly just nursing that women went into?

EJ: Well, when I was in nurses training, I don't remember there being any faculty that were women, of doctors. However, this is a little sideline, but there were a few of us that the nursing echelon I guess I'll say, there was the gals that were the head of the nursing program, they trusted a few of us that 00:55:00they didn't keep in the dormitory. So we didn't have to check in and check out because they assumed we weren't drinkers or whatever. And so we lived in the hospital annex. And in the room across from my coworker, you know, another student and I lived, there was a doctor-to-be, an intern, I guess you'd call, an intern, and an extern. And I never really knew what the extern was, but she was studying to be a doctor, too. And they lived in the room across from us. But 00:56:00there were no physicians on staff that were women, and outside of her, there were those two girls, were the only I'll say student positions, whatever they were called. Interns. Intern and extern, that was it. Otherwise, it was all men.

LG: And I guess another question I have kind of on that same note, were there any men who would want to enlist in the nursing school? I'm sure at the time it was all women. But do you know of any men who were kind of wanting to train in that?

00:06:04

EJ: Well, as far as I knew, there were no men that were in our class or in the class before ours or the class after us. And then it wasn't very long till they 00:57:00did join. But there was one man that was a registered nurse. He was considerably older than we were, and I don't remember where he might have taken his nurse's training. But he was the only male registered nurse that was involved when we were in school.

LG: And was that a staff member?

EJ: Yes, it was a staff member. He was a staff member. Right.

LG: Got you. All right. And I know you said that you missed the cadet nurses program, just because of timing. But what were the perceptions of World War Two while you were in school? Like was it still kind of a topic of interest, or were 00:58:00you mostly just focused on your schooling?

EJ: Oh, it was very different. Definitely a topic of interest of, you know, everybody had relatives that were in the service. Relatives or boyfriends.

LG: What would you talk about kind of surrounding it? Like what was the mood on campus?

EJ: What was your question?

LG: Like if you were talking about it with your friends or just like discussing it with people, what kinds of things would you talk about during your school life?

EJ: You mean not necessarily anybody being in service, just whatever we talked about?

LG: Yeah. Just what you guys would talk about as students on a college campus about World War Two.

00:08:15

EJ: Well, I can't think of anything specific. I'm sure we were very interested 00:59:00in some of it. I know some of my classmates did join the Army Nurses Corps after we graduated. And I think maybe some of us thought about it, but most of us were engaged by that time. Our lives took us other where.

LG: And kind of on that note, do you feel like any part of your nursing career changed significantly as the years passed? Or like your role as a nurse? Or do 01:00:00you feel like your role pretty much stayed the same throughout the years that you worked?

EJ: I think personally I was engaged and so I had my husband-to-be. Dodgeville was his address. So I looked for a job in Dodgeville. So I've often wondered what it meant, but with my grades from, you know, when I took my final nursing exam or whatever it was called, there was a little note, they wanted me to apply 01:01:00for a job with the state. And I often wondered what the job was. And I was the only woman, one of our graduating class that got this offer. So I figured I did pretty good on the exam. (laughs) That was just a guess. I thought it was kind of an honor.

LG: No, that sounds like a really amazing opportunity. So during your career, especially toward the end, technology really blew up into the medical scene. Did you really feel the impact of kind of the technology boom? Or was your role mostly just the same throughout that?

EJ: Well I think I felt that there was just a lot of advancements. Things that 01:02:00were changing. Maybe everything. [unclear] that there were big changes in the, since I had started. And I felt they were, you know, going to continue.

LG: Mm hmm. And on that note, too, could you clarify your birthdate and the years you were in Madison General? And then how many years, or what year you stopped working as a nurse?

EJ: Would I clarify my birthdate? Was that the first thing?

LG: Yeah.

EJ: It was November the third, 1925.

LG: Nineteen twenty-five, all right. And then what years--

EJ: I was the oldest one in my class.

LG: Did you just apply later? Or was it just because of your birthday that you 01:03:00happened to be older than everyone?

EJ: Oh, I just applied later. Because [unclear] the first year I got out of high school, my [unclear] were farmers. And my dad wasn't well. And so I stayed at home and helped milk cows and Probably did field work. And then my dad and mom bought a smaller farm that he could manage. And so I just did that the first year after graduation. And then one year, but then I went to university one year and I took chemistry. I don't know if you want all my inputs or not, but I took chemistry. My brother had started in Platteville. And chemistry was his major. 01:04:00But he was, would have been drafted. So he quit college and he got out and. I think it was called a farm draft or something like that. And so he stayed at home and worked. So when I went to the university, I guess I, I liked chemistry. But after I got into it, I decided A, I didn't want to be a chemist, and B, I didn't want to teach, so I better decide something different.

LG: That makes sense. So which years were you studying at Madison General?

00:14:21

EJ: Well, I graduated, I can go backwards, I graduated in '49. That was three years, so I suppose I started in '46.

LG: Great. And then which year did you retire from nursing?

EJ: I think I retired when I was 63. So just add that to 25. (laughs) Whatever.

LG: Yeah, I can do the math later. No worries. So, my last question for you is, what was the transition like from being a student nurse to a fulltime professional?

EJ: Would you ask that question again?

LG: Sure. What was the transition like from being a student nurse to a fulltime 01:06:00professional nurse?

EJ: That's kind of a tough question to ask. One of the things when I graduated, I worked at, it was Saint Joseph's Hospital in Toddville? at that time. And it was staffed by nuns. And I wasn't Catholic, so I wasn't acquainted to nuns at all. I wasn't antagonistic toward them, I just, it was a different culture, maybe, you'd say? Yeah. And they had pretty much control of the, I'd say they were, I have nothing against them. And anyway, I mean, but they were the bosses. 01:07:00(laughs) And it was, I mean, maybe it was just a step difference. After I worked there for a while, and then I worked in another hospital in Dodgeville, which is called a general hospital. And there the staff nurses had the authority, you know. And it was me for a while was director of nurses. So it was quite a change. More of a change to go to the second hospital than it was to go to the first. Because someone else, at the Catholic hospital, Saint Joe's, you did what 01:08:00the nuns said.

LG: Mm hmm. And you felt, did you feel that your education at Madison General really helped you kind of get through those transitions?

EJ: Oh, yes, yes. I thought it was top of the line. There were other nurses that came pretty much at the same time I did. And I thought my education was just as good or maybe a little superior.

0:17:54

LG: Good. Well that's all the questions that I had for you. But I know that you mentioned that you had some notes. If you want to share any of those, please feel free.

EJ: Well there were a couple of things I had written and I thought I just had it here but I must have been fooling with my papers. But one of the things, when I 01:09:00was in nurse's training, my dad died. And they quit class for me. They were kind of anxious for me to come back but you know, it's a family member that dies, you want to do more than just go to the funeral. But anyway, everyone, I was out, I'm sure it was at least a week and maybe more, and they had one of my classmates call me and say, "When are you coming back?" But anyway, they just stopped classes.

LG: Wow. That's incredible.

EJ: Because of my dad's death and my going to the funeral. And I thought that was pretty special.

LG: Yeah. Definitely.

EJ: Another thing, I had I don't know if this fits in with your questions, but I don't know if it was a yearly affair, but there was a big dance when I was in nurse's training. And the thing I remembered mostly about it, most all of the nurses had dates and could come. But there were a few of the nurses that didn't have dates. And my boyfriend at the time, I was already engaged to him, but anyway, he had lots of friends. So I said to him, "Would some of these friends like to come to the dance, too, and I can get them a date?" So there was probably, oh, I'll say four of them, four friends of his came and I found dates 01:11:00for them.

LG: That's a funny story. Well, great. Was there any other little details or anecdotes that you'd like to share before we conclude this interview?

EJ: Well, there's one thing. In the, I don't know, did you have where I stayed? I started out at, oh, I can't even say the name.

LG: Was it the dormitory?

EJ: Yeah, it was the dormitory. But it was not--

LG: Was it Rest Harrow?

00:20:56

EJ: Rest Harrow, I guess that's what it was called. Yeah. Anyway, there was one of the nurses, I think it was every morning before we went to school or--can you 01:12:00wait just a second? My doorbell is ringing.

LG: Sure. [pause while EJ goes to answer door]

EJ: I have Meals on Wheels delivered to me. It just arrived. So anyway, I was saying about this morning singing. One of the staff nurses was the one that [led it?], and I don't know if she was a musician or not. But anyway, she'd, I think maybe we sang hymns. You know, just one hymn. One person, one hymn every 01:13:00morning. And I said, I was maybe the complainer, but I said, "Here we get up to sing, we just sing one verse." She didn't like the idea. But I guess the others did. So afterwards, we sang the whole hymn. So I liked that one but I don't think she did. I don't know, yeah, I told you, I'd written those notes about my dad dying and the whole class was, you know, they just waited till I returned before we returned to classes. Which I thought was really, really good.

So I was wondering, when you get this all written up, will you give a copy to those of us that told you stories?

LG: Yeah, sure. So as of now, I'll just conclude my question interviews. But, and we also will send a release form. And in it I can give you some details, just like a little note of, like we're putting together transcripts so we could be able to send those to you once you sign the release form that we have and send it back to us. So, yeah, that's not a problem at all. And then I can also just keep you updated. Either me or my boss can keep you updated on what has come out, or what our plans are, for the stories. Because we don't have it solid yet. We're just compiling still. But yeah, I have a note to say that--

EJ: How many of you are working on this?

LG: Well, it's just me doing the interviews as far as I know. They might 01:15:00transfer it over in a little bit. But I have like my boss and then the transcribers and other people working just on the team in general.

EJ: I've enjoyed giving my story.

24:36

End Second Interview Session (June 14, 2019)

Total time = 76 minutes