Interview with Elaine Kloepfel

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1958

KLOEPFEL, ELAINE

KLOEPFEL, ELAINE (1936-)

Interviewed: 2020

Interviewer: Faith HoffmeyerIndex by: Sophie Clark

Transcribed by: Teresa Bergen

Length: 89 minutes

First Interview Session (February 6, 2020): Digital File

00:00:00

FH: Okay, today is Thursday, February 6, 2020. And my name is Faith Hoffmeyer. And this is a phone interview for the Madison General Hospital School of Nursing Oral History Project. Elaine, do you mind spelling and stating your last name for an audio check?

EK: It's Kloepfel. K-l-o-e-p-f-e-l.

FH: Great. Thank you. So, to jump right into it, could we start with a brief description of your early life, where you grew up?

EK: Oh, I was born and raised in the Twin Cities of Neenah and Menasha, Fox Valley. Born, actually, at the hospital in Neenah but lived in Menasha. My father had been married before. And so I had four half-sisters. His first wife died. And then he married my mother, and then they had me. So I was the youngest of the family. And most of my half-sisters were out of the home when I was 00:01:00growing up. And they were having families of their own. So I became an aunt at a very early age. (laughs) Anyway. But I grew up in a very happy home, and I was the only child of my parents. And it was a very, it was during, I was born in 1936. So it was through the war years, World War Two. But then I just remember it being very, other than that time, feeling like I was very safe and played outside a lot. And everybody just had to go in when the lights went out, or the sun went down. (laughs)

And very nice life, except when I was ten years old, my father had a sliver in 00:02:00his hand. And he told me how to take it out. And then he told me I should be a nurse. And so that began that story. (laughs) And after that, I always thought yes, I'm going to be a nurse.

And then when I was twelve, he died. He had a stroke. And so it was my mother and I after that. She had to go to work. I learned to come home from school and start supper and do a lot of the housework that she'd done previously. But, had lots of friends. And I would say I had a very nice childhood as far as it went, with a lot of advantages. We lived in a town that had a lot of wealth, a lot of money in it. So we had some very nice opportunities. And I rode my bicycle all 00:03:00over and did a lot of swimming and boating. I lived near Fox River and Lake Winnebago. And had a very uneventful childhood, other than my father's death.

And went through high school at Menasha High School. And every time I met with the school counselor, they'd always talk about our careers. And I'd think, well, I want to be a nurse. So I took all the classes I needed for that eventuality.

And that was about it. As I said, I had a lot of nieces and nephews. Some older than myself, some younger, that I grew up with. And lots of friends.

00:03:54

FH: Well, thank you. That was a great background. You mentioned, well, when you were ten years old, when your father had the sliver in his hand, I assume you 00:04:00were the one that was taking the sliver out, and he was impressed?

EK: I did. I did. He taught me how to sterilize a needle and remove it. (laughs)

FH: Did he? Oh, wow.

EK: I don't know, my mother was always going to night school or something, and classes. Or she worked at the Red Cross. So I guess I was the one at home alone. So I got the job. (laughter)

FH: What did your mother do when she went back to work?

EK: She worked for what is now Menasha Corp. She was the traffic controller. And that means that all of the trucks that transported all of the corrugated boxes they sold and all the containers, that she made sure the routes were mapped out for the drivers, and made sure that they were getting to their destination at the right time, right place, and using the proper routes. I just remember when 00:05:00she got mad because somebody didn't use it. He got stuck under an overpass. (laughter) Yeah, she was very good mathematically. She had a good mind. So she was real good figuring out these things, and enjoyed the job.

FH: And was nursing a popular career in your community growing up?

EK: Well, I think as most everybody knows, when we grew up during that time, there weren't a lot of opportunities for women. It was, you know, you were going to be either a teacher or a nurse or get married and have kids and be a housewife. There weren't a lot of other things even discussed. So all of my friends, most of them were going into becoming teachers, which several did. One friend did get into being an interior designer. But the rest married young and 00:06:00settled down and had families.

FH: Did you have any perceptions of nursing school prior to attending?

EK: Of nursing school itself?

FH: Yes.

EK: No. I mean, our family doctor was a big influence, I suppose, in my life, and his nurse. And she was the one who graduated from Madison General. And so she told, and her husband was our pharmacist. So she always talked about, when I would go in there for my annual checkup or whatever, and I would talk to her about nursing, she'd always say, "You should go to Madison. You should go to Madison General. That's where I went and it was really good." And so I mean, I just sort of fell into this thing that I had my career mapped out for me, where 00:07:00I was going and what I was going to do. It was just sort of, that's it. And I was happy with that. So that's how it all came to be.

FH: Great. What years did you attend Madison General Hospital School of Nursing?

EK: From 1954 to 1957.

FH: And what were your first impressions of Madison when you first got there?

00:07:37

EK: Oh, goodness. Well, I had been here in Madison a couple of times before because our little, our high school basketball team came down. (laughs) We won the state championship. We won twice, the consolation the first time in the state. So I had been to Madison. And one of my good friends, her cousin was going to the university. So we stayed with her at the dorm. So I got to see a 00:08:00little of that.

And then I was down here for the governor's conference on youth I think when I was either, I think I was a junior then. Maybe a senior. I kind of forgot. So I was here in Madison at that time. And stayed actually at the home of then, who was then the superintendent of the administrator of the VA hospital. And we went to various things on campus, lectures and what have you, from various politicians and people from UW. So I had that taste of Madison prior to coming here. But I didn't, you know, and I came down first to go into school for the interview, into the school. You know, that was kind of a different feeling. And 00:09:00being accepted, I felt great that I was going to be actually a student here.

FH: What was the interview process like?

EK: Well, I don't remember a lot of it. (laughs) I just know that I think at that time, Hazel Goff and Ella Allison were just rather new at the school. They'd taken it over. The School of Nursing had lost its accreditation prior to this. And they were brought in, both from the east coast, to get us reaccredited. So they were very knowledgeable, very big in the field. Very well 00:10:00known in the field. But of course I didn't know that at the time. So they were a little scary to me when interviewing (laughs) because they were very professional. But it went well. And my mother was with me. And so I just remember that I really wasn't worried about getting in. I guess I just thought it was a given. I don't know why. But you know, it was kind of this is a new experience. And you just kind of take it all in and answered the questions and then left. And then we got the letter saying I was approved. And I had never had any doubts. And when I think back about that, I thought how dumb I was. (FH laughs) but that's the way it was.

FH: Mary did inform us that you were part of the 1950s reaccreditation effort. 00:11:00Can you talk a bit more about that?

00:11:04

EK: Well, the school was being reaccredited, or had to win back the accreditation. And I think it was a matter of the kinds of instructors we had, who was teaching what. And then how well the students did. And it's just like any program, any education program has to be accredited. So they have to go through certain steps. And at the time it was certainly looking at the background of the educators we had. Who was doing it, what. And we did, the first year. We went to the university for a lot of our classes. So we would go from McConnell Hall over to whatever building on campus. And at the time, I 00:12:00don't think, I mean, I wasn't aware that we were being reaccredited. But after I got into administration, I kind of understood what that all entailed. But it was certainly the fact that how many had graduated, how well they did, what were the scores on the state boards afterwards. There's a lot of, I think, things that go into it. They're all looked at as part of the accreditation process. [glitch] qualities.

FH: Do you remember how large your class was?

EK: In our class, we had fifty-six.

FH: Oh, wow.

EK: Yeah.

FH: And you lived in McConnell Hall?

EK: We did.

FH: Can you talk a little bit about that experience?

EK: Oh, it was great. I mean, McConnell Hall was lovely. And I do remember going in the first time and being assigned to a room. And then I had a roommate, who I'd never met before. And she was from Wisconsin Rapids. So we sat down and got to know each other. And our parents got to know and talk a little bit. And then they were gone and we were on our own. So we eventually got to know the other people on our floor. We were on the second floor, way at the end, by the back staircase. And the other gals in our class, you know, we just gradually we met and got to talking. And you get to be close very quickly, because you're all facing the same thing. So we were a tight group.

And McConnell Hall had a lovely living area downstairs. They had a nice lounge on every floor. And they, you know, our big bosses, Miss Gough and Miss Ellison, lived in the lower level, way down, so they were in the building as well. So I liked McConnell Hall. We had a great time there. Did a lot of crazy things there. (laughs)

FH: In your email, you mentioned bat chasing parties at McConnell Hall?

EK: We did.

FH: What does that mean?

EK: Well, we had a year when the windows and screens, some of them had to be replaced or repainted. So it was just upkeep. But that meant that all of a sudden, screens were off and windows were open. (laughs) And bats came in. I 00:15:00think, I know my roommate and I, we figured out if we opened the window from the--it was hot out, so we needed the windows open--so we figured out if we opened the windows from the top down and then pulled the shade down over that, that helped. But we would chase the bats when they came in. We'd have brooms or whatever. And we'd go chasing them up and down the halls and try to get them out. And sometimes we caught them. And sometimes when we caught them we, if they were alive, most of the time we killed them, actually, then we sometimes left them in front of the upper classmen doors. (laughs)

And one of the housemothers lived there. And she came flying out to us one time because a bat had gotten into her room. So we had to go rescue her and get the 00:16:00bat out of her room. And that, we did. We had bat chasing. And it was just for a couple of weeks during one summer. But it was certainly interesting.

And down in the main lounge downstairs, there were always two or three bats rolling around up in the ceiling. You would go down there and everybody would bring a broom or something. And we'd go down there and chase those bats. But that was just due to the year we were being, the screens were being replaced or repainted or whatever.

FH: What were some of the social or recreational activities that you and your friends engaged in?

EK: Well, we played a lot of cards. We had a lounge on our floor that everybody gathered in. And it was quite a nice room. It's one of the rooms that is over 00:17:00the front door. So it's kind of a round shape with a lot of windows. So it was spacious. And so there were always groups that played different games. Card games or board games in there. And I think at that time most everybody smoked. So you'd have to kind of cut your way through the smoke. I think back and I think oh my lord, what we did. So we did a lot of that when we weren't studying.

We also went out a lot. There were many calls for blind dates and there were, you know, the university being there, there was a lot of social life going on. So everybody went out a lot. And we did a lot of ice skating over at Vilas Park. We went swimming at Vilas Park. It was very nice being close enough that we 00:18:00could walk there. And there was Park Street, which had a lot of fun places to go into. We did, I remember, I'm trying to think of the name of the ice cream parlor that's up at the top of Park Street. They made milk and ice cream. It was a dairy. But that was always a fun place to go get a malt. And we just did a lot of different things that kids do.

FH: Did you eat your meals at the hospital?

EK: Yes.

FH: How was the food?

EK: Well, as I recall, good. Never remember feeling like I wasn't fed well.

FH: So now moving on to your education, can you talk a bit about some of the nursing art skills that you learned at Madison General Hospital? Like drawing 00:19:00blood or changing linens, giving baths and so forth.

EK: Well, that, yeah, we certainly had the hands on. At that time, hospitals relied on the students a lot for a lot of the care actually given. I mean, the students actually covered all three shifts. And the senior students were the ones that worked more the night shifts. And as a new student, after we had been through classes and had gotten introduced through our dummies that we practiced on, then we practiced on each other. Giving shots. You know, we always had the oranges or whatever around to practice on. And we learned how to do the basic bed baths and talking to patients. Being comforting and listening, and kind of 00:20:00being aware. Looking, making sure we noticed and noted any different things that should be charted or recorded that might be influencing the person's outcome.

And I do remember that our first year there was one of the last big polio epidemics. And I remember we all learned how to do the hot packs. And we'd have these big machines, they would just get steaming hot. And then we'd have to place them on the limbs of the polio patients. And oh my goodness, that was difficult to do because they were very hot. But just working with the polio patients and then those that were in the iron lungs. You know, so much of that 00:21:00was so sad. So we learned a lot of empathy very early. And certainly learned how to do hot packs.

We also had long-term care patients that you don't have in hospitals today. And I do remember one, Martha. She'd been there a couple of years. She was barely responsive, but she was well taken care of. Her skin was absolutely perfect. We knew how to do skincare, boy. Prevent bedsores. And we also learned how to do trach care on her, because she had a tracheostomy. And it was just the way it was in those days. We learned on those patients. And it, you know, when I look back on it, it was kind of amazing. But it was interesting times.

00:22:00

FH: In what ways do you think it was amazing? If you wouldn't mind explaining a 00:22:00bit more about that.

EK: Well, because we were actually learning on real patients. I mean today we have the simulators. We have a lot of the, they just don't allow that today. So there was no, plus technology. I mean, you can go up on a computer and learn a lot of what we had to learn in actual touching and doing. So it's different. Very different.

FH: And what was it like in your third year, being on the polio unit?

EK: Well, that was our first year.

FH: Oh, your first year.

EK: Yeah. That was the first year when we were really rather new.

FH: How do you think that affected your education?

EK: Well, I mean, I think it affected it only in, we were so busy. It was so much heavy work to do that you learned how to use your time well. But you learned how to, the empathy part of caring for patients in iron lungs. Patients who were young who suddenly could not walk. They were just so damaged, you know, psychologically by this that it was hard to see and think boy, that could be me. You know, it was hard to take care of them. And then it didn't always feel good for them. There was a lot of discomfort involved. So it was kind of a tough time. But it was what it was at that point. You know, polio still had not been, 00:24:00and that was, as I say, the last year, though, of the big epidemic. After that, the Salk vaccine came out and polio no longer was the problem that it was before that.

FH: And you also mentioned in your email about memories at Mendota and the VA Hospital?

EK: Yes. (laughs)

FH: You want to tell me a bit about that?

00:24:32

EK: Well, again, different times. And I think back and oh, lordy. I mean, Thorazine was the big drug. And we had everybody on Thorazine. They were like walking mummies. I mean, it was sad when I think back on it how we had everybody so drugged that they were just like zombies. So I remember that part. But I 00:25:00remember the part about the electric shock treatments we did. And the insulin shock treatments that were done at that time. The water kinds of treatments. There were a lot of things that today would seem almost barbarous. And yet it was the accepted treatment at the time, or the only thing we had to work with at the time.

And I remember some of the patient where you worked on a unit where they were all patients who were out of control. Nothing, you know, they would just all of a sudden could go into a rage. And they were all in like cells. They were in like locked cells. And I remember one who, the doors were like steel bolted doors. And this man got into such a rage that he actually knocked that door off 00:26:00the hinges about. And I was running down the hall to help. People were yelling. All the orderlies were hiding behind the desk. Everybody was afraid. And he was just like the wildman. Just somebody who's completely out of control. Well, we finally pinned him down, enough of us. We gave him whatever medication was required to calm him down. But yeah, there were incidences like those. And as I said, the other ones, they were almost like zombies.

Or they were people who were just delightful. And many of the patients were. And I remember one who was, she was definitely [glitch]

FH: She was what? I'm sorry.

EK: She was definitely related to the queen of England. I mean, she had a story that was so convincing that we, you know, I was going around thinking that well, this could be true. (laughs) We were almost believing her. And of course that wasn't true at all. But she put on, she was a royal. And she acted like it. And she pretended, or put on, you know, her whole bearing was that we had to treat her like she was a royal being. And that was what her mind was at that time.

So lots of interesting things happened to us at Mendota. But we certainly learned about the whole scope of mental illness. But things today are certainly different.

FH: Were there any other practices or methods that were used routinely at the time that might be considered unusual today?

EK: You mean at Mendota?

FH: In general during your education.

EK: Oh, in general? Oh, well, when you think about it, most every. I mean, we evolve. Everything starts out at one level and eventually evolves and gets better. So, sure. Most surgical procedures, everything that we've learned have evolved into something a lot different than it was back then. But at that time, it was the best that we had.

FH: And what about your time at the VA Hospital?

00:28:42

EK: Well, that was interesting because you know, that taught us how to deal with infectious disease and how to take care of yourself and not to get infected, on how to help those that were. Many, they were mostly veterans, so many were from 00:29:00not this area. Mostly, there were a lot from Chicago. And we just got, I think, to be mostly, I would say, other than what we could do for them physically, mostly it was really we were there to, not to entertain them, but to keep them busy, to make them feel that it wasn't the end, things were going to get better. But it was, for them, a long, long time of having to be in a hospital. So I think they looked forward to the new classes every three months or whenever they came in. Because I think that was the breakup in the monotony they had.

But I do remember one time I just had, I don't know how I got tapped. I think I 00:30:00was on an elevator. And one of the doctors came around and said, "You're going to help me." And they had a patient with miliary tuberculosis, which means that it was all over his body and internally, on the internal organs. And the treatment of choice at that time was exposure to sunlight. And we had to open him all up, and I had to scrub in and handle and take out one organ after another, we kind of lifted up and made sure it was exposed to light. And then that was the cure. So that was probably my one big experience at VA that still is with me.

FH: And you also spent some time at Cook County Hospital?

EK: Well, yes. That was a whole different experience. (laughs) That was for 00:31:00pediatrics. So we spent three months there. Big city. You know, young gals that were, and also Illinois had a younger drinking age. You could drink at eighteen there. So we were like people being let out of a cage. Woo! But the first thing I remember is all the kids and you know, the number of cribs and beds in a huge ward and how they just were so sad because sometimes they weren't that sick. But there they were. Nobody to take care of them. There are so many memories. I mean, we lived on top of a high rise with the nurses' dorm, and we were way up 00:32:00high. And we could look down. And that whole area, South Chicago, was kind of interesting to look at. We saw a lot of prostitutes. (laughs) And a lot of things going on below us. We got quite an education.

But then we'd go down into the hospital through tunnels. And the tunnels were always with, there was the kind of walk area. And then either side there were narrow gullies where there was any drainage, and rats. So you were always down there with the rats. And they always warned us never to walk alone. Always go in groups. So we always did. And we would go from building to building by the tunnel and be very careful about where we walked and how we got there. And make 00:33:00sure the rats stayed away.

And I was there during the fall when election time was on. And that was interesting. Because here's this children's hospital, and there are election posters all over the place. There are candidates out there trying to get elected. Campaigning. So it was kind of an interesting time.

And then the roaches. I remember the roaches. You'd go into the rooms at night and you'd turn on the light and you would hear (swooshing sound) and it would be all the roaches that were picking up crumbs from all the cribs all of a sudden racing for, there was a sink always in the middle of the wall at the end of the room. And the sink and the pipes in the sink, under the sink, is where they came from. And you would hear the swish as they all ran for that pipe. But that 00:34:00was--and they would be in the cribs. They would be all over the place. Because little kids when they would eat always left crumbs around. So it was an education all in itself.

And certainly you got used to being, as we were from Madison, mostly a white community. And in Chicago at Cook County, most of the patients were black. So we got to be quite involved in the differences in the races and the cultures. And it was interesting. It was a real education, as I say.

FH: And you said you were there fall during an election?

00:34:54

EK: Yes.

FH: Which election was it?

EK: Oh, God, I don't know. I think I was there the fall of '56. It would have 00:35:00had to have been November. Because I know we went down to Marshall Field's to see the Christmas decorations. So it would have been that year '56. But I don't remember. I mean, the mayor, I know the mayor that had been there forever was running. I can't remember his name now, but he'd been there forever. But I don't remember the others.

But it was, and we sold our blood. University of Illinois was not far from Cook County Hospital. And we'd go over there and sell our blood so we had money (laughs) so we could go shopping in Chicago.

Lots of good Italian restaurants. I mean, there were a lot of things, we had a lot of fun in Chicago learning how to get around in the big city using the 00:36:00public transportation. But we always went in groups.

FH: How many of you were in Cook County?

EK: Well, our class, I don't know how many in our class were in that rotation. There was the same group of us pretty much went through each, you know, between, I think they kind of went sort of by alphabet. So we were kind of together as we went into the Mendota, VA and then Cook County. And there was always maybe twenty of us. I can't even tell you. But the group, we always, as I said, we didn't all go together at once, but several of us always made sure that we were 00:37:00together. We didn't go off alone. So we'd find out who was interested in doing this or who was interested in doing that, and get together in a group and off you'd go.

FH: And you said that you were working in pediatrics?

EK: Yes. That was our three-month rotation in pediatrics, yes.

FH: Did you have any preferred rotations? Or enjoy some over others, maybe?

EK: Well, you know, I enjoyed all of them for different reasons. I mean, we were learning about mental illness at Mendota. We were learning about infectious disease and TB particularly at the VA, and then we were learning pediatrics. So there were things that you were not able to get here at Madison General. So they 00:38:00had these contracts or agreements with the other hospitals to provide the education for us. So off we would go to those.

And it was good experiences. It was not just the experience of the different medical condition, but it was also the experience of living and seeing and meeting people from different cultures, different backgrounds, different whatever kinds of thoughts they had. That was certainly broadening.

FH: And what were your classes like?

EK: Well, our classes at McConnell Hall were always interesting, I think. As I said, I remember a lot of the doctors lectured to us. And I was talking to a 00:39:00classmate the other day. At the time, back in the '50s, Tampax or tampons were not, I think they were pretty new on the market. They were not part of the norm for women. And Dr. Luedke, William Luedke came in one day and he was a gynecologist, OB/GYN doctor here at Madison. And he came in one day as he was lecturing to us about OB/GYN and he wanted to know how many of us still rode the white horse. (laughs) And we did not know what he was talking about. It was wearing Kotex. And he said, "Get rid of the white horse." And so we laugh now because we all went and bought tampons. And then we had to learn how to insert 00:40:00them. And this was all brand new to us. And you know, he changed a lot of lives at that point. (laughs) We didn't know about that. So we learned that he was certainly telling us you know, to be women, we did not need to rely on the white horse. So I remember that class very well.

And then we had classes in nutrition. You know, medical surgical nursing and all the different specialties. And orthopedics. And a lot of good instructors. Mildred Green was our OB instructor. And I'll tell you what I did learn first early on in OB, that you always covered a little boy when you took the diapers off. You covered off, you put a diaper over him or you got squirted in the face. (laughs) That was an early learning there when I was in the nursery. And that 00:41:00was with Alan Ameche's baby. He was a big football star in Madison at the time. It was his son. And I was changing the diapers, and boy, did I get squirted. And so I said I remember that very well. You always put a diaper over the little kid. (laughs)

And learned a lot about OB and how the different kinds of childbirth experiences women have, and how to help them through it. And then, of course, there's always the sad parts to when there's something lost. But I enjoyed OB a lot. But it's funny that I never ended up in it.

It was kind of an accident, if you will, how I did end up. Because when I left 00:42:00Madison General, I went right to the university to get my bachelor's. And ended up working there a little bit. And ended up in the intensive care unit. So I ended up in critical care for ten years. And it's kind of funny how you're prepared, but you don't, I mean, I liked working in different areas of the hospital. I did not have any particular specialty that I really, really felt I wanted to work in. I just enjoyed working with patients. And depending on what I was doing at the time, I enjoyed it. So I ended up in critical care just by 00:43:00happenstance, and enjoyed that, too.

00:43:07

FH: And you said you went to get your bachelor's at the university.

EK: I did.

FH: What did you get your bachelor's in?

EK: I mean, it was, you know, you came out of Madison General with a diploma and passed the state boards and you're a registered nurse. But I always had intended, and again, I think this goes back to my family doctor. He told me I could, at that time, the university was a five-year program for nurses. And he said, "You will get the best education if you go through a three-year program, because you'll get more hands-on experience. And then go for two years to the university and get your bachelor's." So that was my plan from day one, that I would eventually go on to get my bachelor's from the university. So I just 00:44:00graduated in June of '57. And in September, I was enrolled at the university.

FH: Did you find what your family doctor said to be true about the hands-on experience at three-year?

EK: I was a head nurse supervisor. So I had students. And being, we were the first coronary care unit in the state, as well as ICU, we were part of the rotation for some students that were part of the university program, nursing program. And I would say that at that stage that they were in when they came to us to learn about coronary care, that probably yes, that I probably had been 00:45:00farther advanced in terms of patient care than they were at that time. But you know, they catch up. They just did not have as much hands-on experience as we had had at that point.

So I became part of the faculty at the university with people coming through our unit. Not only nurses, but also interns. Medical students. Yeah. Because it was a whole new branch of medicine. And as I said, we were the first in Wisconsin. So a lot of different things happening and a lot of changes. It was where I think the first time as a nurse I felt really powerful. (laughs) I mean, I knew 00:46:00more than some of the doctors did by the time--so it was like we always used to stand up when the doctors would come in and follow them as they went on their rounds. And you would certainly never address them, other than "Dr. So and So."

And I just remember the first time we defibrillated a patient and the doctor said to me, "Elaine, did you really do this?"

And I went, "Yes, Charlie, I did." (laughter) He kind of was taken aback a bit. But he'd always called me Miss Kloepfel before that. He kind of was taken aback a bit. But after that, we were best friends.

And of course that's where we got rid of the caps was in intensive care units. Because we had so many tubes. And those caps, I would come up from under the bed, whatever I was doing. The cap would be flipped over in my face. And I said, 00:47:00that's enough of that. And also, the pantsuits came in for nurses. Because we were hopping up on those beds doing CPR. The dress uniforms did not work. So things, I think, intensive care unit nursing changed a lot in terms of what goes on today. We initiated a lot. And that was back in 1963.

FH: And were you part of setting up the intensive care unit?

00:47:37

EK: I was. I was. And then I did, this was at the old hospital, I did the respiratory intensive care unit that we opened up. And then later we opened up 6TLC, which was the trauma life support care unit. I named it. And so that was 00:48:00about ten years later, about '72, '73, when we opened that unit up. And then I worked there a couple of years as the head nurse supervisor. And then went back and got my master's. Went to University of Iowa and got my master's degree.

And then the new hospital in Madison, I mean, they were trying to build the new hospital, designing it. And I was on that committee. And I kept bringing up the designs for the new ICUs. And they kept coming back to me and saying it's too expensive, come back. (laughs) And so I'd have to redesign. And it was like oh, gosh, this is not going to be, I don't even want to work there, because they 00:49:00keep making me redesign things that are going to make it not as nice.

So after I got my master's, I went to work at Waukesha Memorial Hospital. And the first thing they said to me was, "We understand you have experience in intensive care and maybe designing." And I went, oh, yeah. I pulled out the first design I ever made for the one for the new UW hospital. I pulled that out and put it together and gave it to the architects at Waukesha and they went, "Oh, this looks good." (laughs) And it was built.

FH: Wow!

EK: And as far as I know, it's still working today. I said, you know, that's the difference between public and private. (laughs) So it's the money. But yeah. It was kind of interesting.

FH: What did you get your master's degree in?

EK: In administration. Healthcare administration. Yeah. I was the vice president 00:50:00for patient care at Waukesha Memorial. So I ended up in administration. But I'd been a head nurse and supervisor for many years when I was at the university. So, and they were the ones that encouraged me to go back and get my master's. So I did, finally.

But at that time, University of Wisconsin did not have a real program for that. And Iowa had one of the two top ones in the nation. The other being in New York. And so Iowa wasn't that far away. Down I went. And very good.

FH: And how did you get involved in setting up the first ICU in Wisconsin? Were 00:51:00you a head nurse at that point?

EK: No. (laughs)

FH: Wow.

EK: I was a staff nurse on 4 East, which was the women's medical unit. And one day as I was going up the elevator to go to work in the morning, Dr. Weinstein was on the elevator with me. And he said, "Congratulations, Elaine!"

And I said, "What for?"

He said, "You're going to be the new head nurse of the 4C ICU." I didn't even know what ICU meant.

So I got off the elevator and went down to the unit and looked at my supervisor. And I said, "What is Dr. Weinstein talking about?" Well, she was so mad at him for telling me, because that wasn't the way it was supposed to be. So that's how it happened. They just had decided, I don't know why, I guess they decided that 00:52:00would be a good fit for me.

So then I got involved, it was an old, big ward at the end of the hall that was converted. And so I got into studying what little literature there was--there wasn't much--about what ICUs should be, or CCUs. How they should look or what they should be like. And at that time, there were only a couple of hospitals in other areas of the United States that had done this for a while. So I kind of talked to some of them and we figured out what--we only had this little space to work with, so we didn't have much choice as to how it could be physically changed. But we certainly learned a lot about how to take care of those patients 00:53:00and the whole coronary care thing.

And then of course when we built to the one on 4 West, I was very involved in that design. And up on the sixth floor, very involved in that design, too. So, yeah.

FH: What did good design entail for these units?

00:53:57

EK: Well it was primary to make sure that you could see the patients at all times, or have some kind of quick access. When we designed the first one, there was only enough space where we could only have a couple of toilets. So like not every patient had a toilet in their room. We only had five rooms. But there was 00:54:00one room that had no toilet, so they had to use the bedpan. So it was sort of what makes it easiest for the patients and the nurses, the people taking care of the patients. And how much space do you need? You learn, you know, when you have to transfer a patient or bring in x-ray or whatever, you need certain space for a couple of carts. You know, you're electronically monitoring them.

I worked a lot with, we had a fellow in the outpatient, let me think, the cardiac part of, they were part of the school, the medical school. [Bill Zeldorf?], he was an engineer, electrical engineer, and he worked with them. And then we had to work with the people that built and supplied the monitors. So you 00:55:00went to a lot of trade shows, you talked to a lot of salesmen, you talked to a lot of technical people on how these things were to work. And then you needed to make sure you had the right electrical inputs, outputs, to handle the equipment. So it was just a matter of learning from others about what's needed for the equipment, and what kind of equipment you needed. And then making sure you have room for it. So there was easy access, and that the patient was visible, at least for the ones that were in real intensive care areas.

And then you get to where you just, we designed that for the intermediate care. 00:56:00Are you there?

FH: Yes.

EK: Okay. I've got to switch phones, I think.

FH: Okay.

00:56:12

EK: But we, to learn how to gradually work our way into okay, you got them when they start out in the acute care, but then they--just a minute (beeping)

FH: All right.

EK: Okay. Can you hear me?

FH: Yes, I can hear you.

EK: Then we got to where they, what's the next step? You know, you phase them down, and so you needed an intermediate care. And then you're eventually where you needed someplace where you could do some family work with the family, whether it be some teaching or whether it would be someplace that they could 00:57:00have that was private. And there were just lots of parts that--and then what kinds of patients were you going to have? You know, upstairs when we were on sixth floor, we knew we were going to have some burn patients. Then you had to make sure you had space that would be infection-free.

And we also worked a lot hard on wallpaper. What would make people feel good? (laughs) So we didn't just look at medical equipment. We also looked at the surroundings, the environment. What would patients who were acutely ill, what would be stimulating to them or what would be calming to them? We didn't want blah. So there was a lot of stuff that went into it that you kind of learned as you went.

FH: What was wallpaper that made people around them feel good?

EK: Well, I don't know. (laughs) We had different wallpaper in different areas that were kind of not too stimulating, but some that just, some with some stripes or small, some floral stuff. But it was pretty tame. But it was color. And that's what we wanted was something that was not just so white walls. You know? (laughs) Or just blank walls. We wanted something that had some color in it but that was soothing as well. So that's what we looked for.

And a couple of doctors and I, we would fight over which color, which one we liked best. (laughter)

FH: When it was all built and set up, how did that feel?

EK: Oh, it felt great. I mean, we were very proud of what we had accomplished, what we did. And the thing about it is, it worked. And that's the best part is when you got it all set up and it works. People find that they can work in it easily. The patients are okay, especially the relatives feel comfortable. I mean, when you've got something that it works for everybody, then you know you've been successful.

FH: And how long did you work as a nurse before going into administration?

EK: I was at the university for, what, fourteen years. And then I went into administration. I was in that for what, seventeen years. And then I got into, I 01:00:00heard about a place or a, Medistar, here in Madison, that had a contract for the first, under Medicare, a contract under Medicare, for the first national study on coronary care. And it's a quality improvement organization. That's part of the Medicare contract. Every state has to have an organization that makes sure that Medicare patients in that state are receiving accepted standard of care.

And so I heard about the place here in Madison, Medistar, that had received this 01:01:00contract for the first national study on coronary care. At Waukesha Memorial, we were very successful with the joint commission. Do you know what joint commission is?

FH: No.

01:01:18

EK: Well, they're the ones that accredit hospitals.

FH: I see.

EK: And they do it international. And every hospital has to be accredited by joint commission to even get insurance or Medicare funding. To get money. So that's very important that you have joint commission accreditation. And our hospital at Waukesha, we always did extremely well. So I took a small job at a small hospital that had lost their accreditation. And I got them reaccredited. 01:02:00And I was there for only a couple of years. But then I was kind of looking, I kind of got involved in this whole quality improvement bit.

And so when I found out about the national study being done, I kind of went in and inquired and came to interview for it, just to find out more about it. I went back and I remember the unit clerk calling me at home that night and she said, "We have Dr. So and So on the line, and he wants to talk to you. Is it okay if I give him your home phone number?" And I said, well, yeah. I was surprised because I'd given them the home. Evidently, I don't know, he lost it or something.

So he called and he said, same night, he said, "We want you for this job."

Oh, okay. So I came up here to Madison, back to Madison, and joined Medistar. 01:03:00And we did the national coronary care project. And that meant working with every hospital in the state of Wisconsin. And we at that time, this was in the '90s, at that time it was still allowed that we could share stuff between hospitals. It's gotten harder to do that now. But we collected data, tons of data, from coronary patients in every hospital in the state who cared for them. And we had indicators that were part of the national project. Now there were five states nationally who were doing the same study. And Wisconsin was one of them.

So they had this list of indicators that every hospital had to meet. They were 01:04:00the standards. And so we collected data and looked and saw whether they met those standards or not and then how well they did. And then we went out to every hospital and coached them on what they were doing well, what they were doing right, and then where they could improve. And that was probably the most fun job ever.

FH: Really?

01:04:28

EK: Yeah. Because I got to go around, and we could share information between hospitals. We could say well, this is where you're kind of not as good as so and so is. And here's why. And here is what they are doing. And you could do that and that would improve your score, so to speak. And so we did. From '93, I think, to about '98. And then we did a lot of other. I mean, Medicare, that 01:05:00became a huge publication as far as it was nationally published as far as how all these hospitals and states were doing in taking care of patients with coronaries.

But then they also did others. And we did many, how many of the states were doing well on preventing pneumococcus, in giving influenza vaccines. I did a project that I wanted to do that they okayed on breast cancer and how well we were doing as a state in making sure women got it detected early. And then what kind of after, if they had positive, were positive for breast cancer, then what kind of treatment did they receive? And what options were they given? And what 01:06:00resources were available to them within their communities. So there was just a lot of things that were fun to do to improve care. And what could be better, than to improve care?

So we've kind of gotten away from Madison General, haven't we? (laughs)

FH: It's okay. I had questions about your post-education, anyway. That answered a lot of them, so that was great. I mean, we can go back to Madison General, if you don't mind.

EK: Okay.

FH: Are there any faculty who played an important role in your education?

EK: Oh, gosh. Yeah, there were some I remember very well. I remember Mrs. Cheney. She was one of our instructors. And Mrs. McAlpine. And Mrs. Green in OB, 01:07:00she was important. I remember they had nurse, Mrs. Montague on 4 East. I mean, she was real strict. (laughs) And we practically saluted. But by golly, she was good. She taught me a lot, anyway. And I remember Miss Woodman in OR. She taught us a lot as far as, you know, we had to learn how to scrub in and be an assistant in OR. Let me think. I'm trying to think what other, I can't, Dr. Luedke I talked about. Dr. Nordby, he was an orthopedic surgeon. And I think he 01:08:00gave us lectures on the orthopedic part of things. But we were trying to remember who else, we remembered Mr. Henry in pharmacy. He was the head pharmacist. And of course he did some teaching, too. And everybody remembers Nelly Brown, who was our night supervisor for a million years. And she really was on top of everybody when you worked nights. She made sure, gosh, nothing went wrong.

And I mean, of course, there was Miss Goff and Miss Allison, who were our main people. And I just remember Miss Goff, first thing, one of the early things that we learned, you never run when you're in uniform. Never run. (laughs) And if she 01:09:00saw anybody running between McConnell Hall and the hospital, she let them know that was not appropriate. So we learned to be very professional.

And I remember, we had to learn how to print. Because they didn't want us to be like doctors, where nobody could read our writing. (FH laughs) It was important that our notes be able to be read.

So there was, and then, of course, we went to UW for classes our first year. We did. We took a lot of like chemistry and a lot of science classes through the university in our first year at Madison General.

FH: Did you enjoy those classes at the university?

EK: Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we're all new. We're bright-faced 01:10:00eighteen year-olds who are just out for the first time away from our homes. And this was all new and exciting. I think some people were homesick, but most of us were really just very eager to get with it and learn and figure out what we were going to do with the rest of our lives.

01:10:29

FH: Were there any particularly challenging aspects of your education?

EK: Well, lots were challenging. I mean, there's always that. I don't, I mean, in terms of the different specialties, as I was learning, I suppose to me psych was not my favorite. I did not enjoy, I did not enjoy having all these patients 01:11:00walking around like zombies. (laughs) I did not think that was, or seeing electric shock treatments. Those things were kind of stressful. But other than that, you know, I enjoyed--OR, I enjoyed OR, but I was not, that was not my thing. You know, I just preferred being able to talk to patients. And I couldn't. (laughs) They were out. So I didn't enjoy OR as much as some others did. And I loved pediatrics. I loved working with the kids. But other than that, I don't remember anything challenging.

Probably the most challenging thing I had was the course in statistics.

FH: Oh. Why was that?

EK: I didn't do well with statistics. I did eventually, because I got to be, when I was working at Medistar, we got to using a lot of data. There was a lot of statistical analysis. But when I was young at that time, it took me a while to get it. So that part I was, but I loved everything else.

FH: Were there any resources available to nursing students outside of the classroom if they were needed?

EK: Oh, you mean like library?

FH: Sure. Yeah. Tutoring. Study groups.

EK: Oh. You know, I don't know. There was, certainly any student that was having difficulty, Miss Goff or Miss Allison would help them. And it was always a 01:13:00matter of what the problem was. But most of the time it wasn't so much an educational problem as it was more maybe being away from home kind of thing.

FH: I see.

EK: Yeah, I don't remember anybody having any real problems. I know one of our classmates left. She did not do well right from the start. But that happens all the time. But nothing that I recall as being special. We had resources available to us as far as the libraries go at the university. You know, it was the many doctors and nurses that were working at the hospital that were already, I had one who was, well, the upperclassmen were big resources for us. I do remember that.

I was a patient myself. I forgot what was wrong with me. But I know I ended up being admitted. (laughs) I shouldn't even tell you this. But one of the upperclassmen, she was a night nurse on that day. And I was awake. And she took me along and showed me how to give an IM injection. (laughs) Now that we frown on. (laughter) She said, "You want to learn how to do an IM?" Yeah, I would. In my gown. I was a patient. That was probably a no no. So we had them that were always there for us as well.

FH: So how, if at all, do you think your education at Madison General played a 01:15:00role in how you understood quality care for later in your career?

01:15:10

EK: Well I think it was partially just the standards that were established. And how we were to act. How we were, you know, to be always present. Listen. Learn. And then react. How we were to make sure that our charting was accurate and legible, that we were honest and that we were, I think the best thing I remember learning so much was how to actually be in the present, in the moment, to really listen. And to be aware of what the reaction was of the patient. So you just 01:16:00kind of build on that as you get more experience and you learn more.

FH: How did you learn to interact with patients at Madison General Hospital? Aside from not running in the hallways.

EK: (laughs) Oh, well, by taking care of them. By learning by doing. That was the main thing is you did it by doing. And initially, you know, it sometimes was a little frightening. You didn't know what to say or do, especially in really tough situations. But you know, I would observe how the (coughs) excuse me, the more experienced nurses did it. Or how the head nurse, what they did. So you kind of watched and listened and learned. And it depends a lot on your own 01:17:00personality, of course.

FH: So now, sorry, going back to your career, are there any other memorable moments of your time as a nurse or in administration or working for the national study that you maybe want to add?

EK: Oh, boy. I mean, there are so many. I don't even know where to begin there. I had lots of wonderful moments where either a patient would come in and thank me or the family would come in. You'd get a lot of appreciation. I remember taking care of a patient in the coronary care unit who was, we literally saved. 01:18:00Because we did CPR and whatever, and he managed to pull through. His wife was there a lot with him. And she got to know us well. And would invite us over to their house after he went home. And years later, his daughter came to interview for a job at Waukesha Memorial for me. And I mean, I was just like, "Oh, you're So and So's daughter? Oh my gosh! I took care of your dad!" (laughs) You know, it was just so unreal. But that was sort of different.

The other things, I just, there were just so many good memories with doctors, 01:19:00with patients. Just through the years and how time has changed and what technology has brought to us, and what we can do today that we could not do then. And it's quite great.

FH: What advice would you give to future nursing students?

01:19:27

EK: Oh. Learn from the best. Always, I think, the main thing is be compassionate. Be empathetic. And just be intelligent.

FH: Well, is there anything else that we maybe missed throughout the interview?

EK: Oh, golly, I don't know. I'm enjoying my retirement now.

FH: How long have you been retired?

EK: Oh, gosh, almost twenty years. Yeah. So right now, I don't do much of anything. But before that I was, now I'm the patient. But before that, I mostly just traveled. I wanted to see other cultures. I wanted to see how the rest of the world lived. So that was what I did.

FH: Where did you go?

EK: Well, I went all over. I mean, I've been on several cruises. I've spent a month in Europe. I've spent weeks in China, Thailand, Hong Kong. You know, the Far East. Been there. I've been to all fifty states.

FH: Wow.

EK: And tent camped through most of them. So it's been, you know, I've seen most of the world. And Australia. I've got a good friend in Australia that we still email back and forth. I was lucky. Are you there?

FH: Yes, I'm here.

EK: I was lucky when I was at Waukesha to become invited to a fellowship program at Wharton Business School in Pennsylvania for nurse executives. And they did [glitch] for hospitals that were large, thousand-bed hospitals.

FH: I'm sorry, I think you--

EK: And then they brought in those that were like 400 beds or bigger. And that's 01:22:00what we were. We were 400 beds. So I applied and got there and spent a whole summer there with, I mean, and my boss supported me, which was very nice. And we attended courses at Wharton School of Business and had a fantastic time there. They allowed, I think it was thirty students each year, plus one from out of country. And the one from out of country for our class was from Australia. So Jill and I are still friends from that period of time. So that's, and then I finished. And then they had us come back every year for like an alumni get together, a refresher. So I'd go back to Philly for every year for several 01:23:00years, with all of the alumni from all of the classes. So it was a great experience there. And getting to, you know, you get to compare notes. You learn a lot from each other. And I think that's one of the big skills is listening and using what you learn into what you're doing. What can I learn? What can I use from this information? What will apply to our situation? And use it.

That's the one thing I miss most is that today there's not the sharing that used to go on. Because that would make the quality of healthcare so much better if that was true. Because everybody now wants to get everything at their place so they get the money. And they don't want to, if they find something that works 01:24:00really well, they hate to share it. And that's what's hard is not doing that.

Being at the university here, at that time, hospitals from all over the state used us. And so we were sharing a lot of information at that point throughout the state. And then all of a sudden, everybody was in competition. So it became, instead of working together, it became competitors. And so that's what it has remained. And the competition is out there. And there's nothing, I guess, we're going to do about it. Except that that's too bad. It's sad that we don't have that anymore. Because that would enhance quality of care.

FH: Do you think you felt that shift during your career at some point? Or was it after?

01:25:07

EK: Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Oh, no. I felt that when I was working at Waukesha. Yeah. We were in competition at that point with Saint Luke's in Milwaukee. (laughs) A couple of heart surgeons and we wanted to share. No way. (laughs) So, there was a lot of, yeah, that was starting way back then.

FH: And I think it cut out earlier when you were describing the Wharton fellowship.

EK: Okay. What?

FH: Can you, sorry, just to clarify, the fellowship was for what?

EK: Nurse executives.

FH: Nurse executives. I see.

EK: Yeah. I will tell you why. Back in the day, a lot of nursing directors were people that were promoted from within, but that never received advanced degrees. 01:26:00Johnson & Johnson sponsored this, by the way. So Johnson & Johnson evidently had visions of getting together the nursing administrators and helping them enhance their administrative skills. Did that block off again?

FH: No. I heard that.

EK: Oh. Anyway, that was their premise was that they would enhance the skills of those that had not been able to go onto school. But then it evolved. Because suddenly all of the nursing administrators had advanced degrees. It was no longer acceptable just to promote from within. So then it became where they were 01:27:00even doing further enhancements, if you will, and doing a lot more things that related to like marketing skills. Things that were more [glitch] so it was just part of the whole [glitch] my battery is going. That's what's happening.

FH: Oh. I see.

EK: So, I think we have to end it.

FH: Well, if there's anything else that you think of, we can potentially schedule a follow-up interview, too.

EK: Well, I think I've just about said everything I can think of.

FH: Well, good. It was great information.

EK: I think we got farther afield than I thought we would, but okay. (laughs) Hope it, I don't know what this will have to do with the oral history of Madison 01:28:00General, though.

FH: It's valuable because we got to see how your education played a role in your career.

EK: Well, that's true. That's true. And they did start it all. So, bless them. (laughs)

FH: Unless there's anything else you'd like to include, I will turn the recorder off, and then I have a couple of things to go over with you. But I just wanted to make sure that you're still there for that.

EK: Okay. Okay.

FH: All right. Well, thank you so much.

01:28:35

End Interview Session