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00:00:00 - Interviewer's introduction

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Partial Transcript: "This is the third interview session with Emeritus
professor of Art Marjorie Kreilick..."

00:00:23 - Mid-1960s commissions; Foucault Pendulum

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Partial Transcript: "We'd like to pick up in the mid-1960s with your studio
work and teaching..."

Segment Synopsis: Question: Talk about what you’re doing in the mid-1960s. Answer: Kreilick talked about taking a portfolio to Harold Spitznagel in 1967 who was working on a Foucault pendulum for a science building. She talked about working in black and white mosaics and problems with the installation, since the architect had changed the size of the disc. Follow up: Were you happy with it? Answer: She said Schroeder was good, so you couldn’t tell the difference.

Subjects: Augustana University; Foucault's Pendulum; Harold Spitznagel; Mosaic installation

00:05:14 - Design conference in Aspen; Mayo Clinic and other commissions in 1967 and 68

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Partial Transcript: "In 1967, there was an international design conference in
Aspen, CO, and I got scholarships for two of my

Segment Synopsis: [no question] Talking about other activities in 1967 and 68, she recalled going to a design conference in Colorado, being commissioned to design a birdbath for a public library garden, designing a mural for St. Mary’s hospital in Wausau WI, and working on a mosaic mural for a floor at Mayo Clinic. She discussed how Salzman (at Mayo) had learned of her and about leaving her portfolio with him while she was in Rome working on St. Mary’s during the summer of 1968.

Keywords: Aspen, CO; Mayo Clinic; Wasau, WI

00:11:42 - Relationship between Art and Art History Departments; Teaching in the Humanities Building

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Partial Transcript: "I had to have a place for 60 to 65 students to lecture to,
and we had nowhere to do it..."

Segment Synopsis: [no question] During those years, she recalled, her color course grew to three sections. She discussed having large lectures on Wed. and smaller lab sections and finding a room large enough in Art History, only to find out later that art department staff were forbidden to lecture in the Art History department—at which point she was forced to set up a room in Humanities. Follow up: Why was this? Answer: She talked about the separation between art and art history, and about her feelings of anger at the stupidity of it.

Keywords: Art History; Color Course; Humanities Building

00:18:03 - Early 1970s commissions; Salzman's death and replacement

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Partial Transcript: "In 1970 I received a semester's research grant from the
Graduate School to attend a course on the culture and history of

Segment Synopsis: [no question] Kreilick talked about being commissioned in 1970 to produce a mosaic for a second-grade reader on artistic techniques—her mosaic became the book cover. That year, she also received a grant to research the culture of Ravenna and Byzantium in Bologna. In 1971, she sold a 6’ by 3’ mosaic for the National Bank building in Chicago, and in 1970 she installed the Mayo Clinic mosaic. She talked about Salzman dying, but being replaced by a man (McNabb) sympathetic with Salzman’s original commissions. She talked about the theme for her 16th floor mosaic “Flowers will change the world.” Stopped here

Keywords: Bologna, Italy; Mayo Clinic; National Bank Building; Salzman

00:23:58 - Student advising, mentorship, and employment

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Partial Transcript: "In 1972 the Dean of the School of Education assigned each
faculty member some 22 students. We were to make sure that they could graduate
in 4 years."

Segment Synopsis: [no question] In 1972, Kreilick recalled, she began advising undergraduate art students. She talked about one who she’d advised to take a second language (German) to round his education; he later went to Germany teaching ESL using plays. She said he never returned to the US and she thought she’d changed his life. Follow up: So you didn’t resent having to advise? Answer: Kreilick thought advising allowed personal attention rather than an impersonal counselor. Follow up: Did you befriend students? Answer: No, she didn’t socialize with them, but did hire students to work in her studio.

Keywords: Dean of Education; German language; advising; student mentoring; student employment

00:30:34 - Sterling Hall, Campus unrest, and political activism in early 1970s

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Partial Transcript: "I didn't find any art students that were against the
establishment. They were all too busy. At least my students were too

Segment Synopsis: Question: Recollections of the tumultuous early 1970s? Answer: Kreilick recalled the tumult, but said her art students weren’t politically active because they were too busy. Her and Lange talked about the similarities between art, music, and medical students, who were all too busy. Follow up: Were you politically active? Answer: No, she was too busy as well, and had just bought a house. She heard the Sterling Hall bombing, but thought the gas station pumps that had blown up.

Keywords: 1970s; Campus unrest; Sterling Hall

00:35:38 - Women hires in the Art Department; Tenure at last

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Partial Transcript: "In 1973, the Art Department hired another woman. It had
been 10 years."

Segment Synopsis: [no question] Kreilick discussed the hiring of another woman in 1973 to the Art department—a metalworker. Follow up: Did you mentor her? Answer: She supported her as a faculty, but not an artist. Follow up: When did you get tenure? Answer: In 1967, after 14 years. Follow up: Did this change anything? Answer: No, she said it didn’t change anything, and speculated her furlough in Rome put her back several years.

Keywords: Art Department; Mentoring faculty; Tenure; Women artists

00:38:45 - Move to Mosse Humanities Building

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Partial Transcript: In 1973 the second woman was added [to the Art Department]. Any
other observations about the faculty?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Any other observations on faculty? Answer: Kreilick said everything changed when the department moved to the Humanities building—that it ended much of the collegiality that might have been because offices were separated. She also complained that the School of Education wasn’t issuing or teaching computers when they were becoming commonplace. Follow up: Who was chair? Answer: She said it changed frequently, and made little impact on her career.

Keywords: Chairship; Extension; Humanities Building; School of Education

00:45:04 - On Dale Chihuly; Graduate student support

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Partial Transcript: Is Harvey Littleton still here at this point? Had you and he
maintained a collegial relationship?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Had you remained friends with Littleton? Answer: Yes. Follow up: Talk about Dale Chihuly. Answer: Kreilick regretted that there was no support for graduate students in art—they gave them introductory course, which she thought should be taught by the best faculty. She suggested that Chihuly was all hype (an “ad man”) and that his best work was done by others. She talked about the importance of “hype” in post-WWII art; and that this was evidence of wrong values in the culture because of the bombardment of advertising.

Keywords: Advertising; Chihuly; George Mosse; Littleton

00:52:02 - Mosaic for the architectural pool at Telfair Academy; Grants and commissions 1973-76

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Segment Synopsis: [no question] Kreilick talked about designing a mosaic for the architectural pool at Telfair Academy in GA in 1973. In 1975, she said, she researched WI marble and contacted S. Johnson of Racine to look at the quarries—he later commissioned a mosaic from her. In 1976, she received a research grant to work with Dominick Labino—who had many glass patents, worked with Littleton and formulated tiles for NASA rockets. She talked about the glass museum in Toledo.

Keywords: Dominick Labino; Savannah, GA; Telfair Academy; Wisconsin Marble

00:58:10 - Dominick Labino and U Toledo; Stone color and mosaics

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Partial Transcript: "That's Dominick Labino, and he came down in the evenings
and I got to know him at the University of Toledo."

Segment Synopsis: [no question] Kreilick discussed getting to know Labino at the Univ. of Toledo and working with him to expand her knowledge of colored stones—she said mosaics were limited by the lack of blue stones. She explained how important it was to be able to work with him.

Keywords: Labino; University of Toledo

01:02:03 - Relationship with George Mosse; 1979 commission

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Segment Synopsis: [no question] Kreilick talked about getting a commission from George Mosse for a sculpture for his garden in 1979. She discussed the casting of this sculpture. Follow up: You two were friends? Answer: Kreilick related meeting Mosse just before leaving for Rome in 1960 at a cocktail party; they both stayed at the American Academy and got to know each other there.

Keywords: American Academy, Rome; Bronze; Garden sculpture; George Mosse

01:06:47 - Design Workshop (1978-79) and practical skills for artists; Trip to NYC

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Segment Synopsis: [no question] In the winter of 1978-79, she discussed suggesting a design workshop involving guest lecturers from a wide variety of fields and a trip to NYC. She talked about funding, housing, studios, screening students, and lecturers. The highlight was spending several weeks in studios in NYC working on their portfolios.

Keywords: Design Workshop; Fairweather Hardin Gallery; New York City

01:13:56 - Successes of initial workshop and lack of funding

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Partial Transcript: "Again, I have to assume you enjoyed putting that

Segment Synopsis: Follow up: You enjoyed putting it together? Answer: Kreilick had thought that if she could test-run the course, then it could become a permanent part of the curriculum for the best students in art. She talked about her studio lining up the best NYC studios, going backstage at the theater, and job offers for two students while they were in NY. When they returned, the Milwaukee Journal did a piece on the workshop and discussed the difference between art school and a liberal education in art. Follow up: Did you do it again? Answer: No, there was no support and no money for it in the department.

Keywords: Art curriculum; Art education; Departmental funding; Liberal education

01:19:27 - Art honor society and legacy of workshop

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Partial Transcript: "The other thing I think our art department should have
had—we had one at Ohio State—was an art honorary."

Segment Synopsis: [no question] Kreilick also regretted UW not having an art honorary, though she suggested it. Follow up: Did you keep up with students from the workshop? Answer: She discussed some who were still in the area, but remarked that they were all busy. Follow up: Were you disappointed they didn’t pick the course up? Answer: She said she wasn’t surprised—she could have worked elsewhere, but wanted her summers free.

Keywords: Art alumni; Art honorary

01:23:37 - Gender discrimination in the Art Department

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Partial Transcript: "Was it then, or is it now, clear to you that women in art
were not welcome?"

Segment Synopsis: Question: Was it clear that women in art weren’t welcome? Answer: She remembered applications being rejected merely because they were women, and talked about the “old boys club” around the chairman. Follow up: Who were your friends at the time? Answer: Colescott, Meeker. She mention also Narsisco Menocal from Art History, whom she met through McNabb.

Keywords: Colescott; Gender disrimination; Meeker; Narsisco Menocal

01:28:41 - Experience in Savannah, GA

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Partial Transcript: "When you were mentioning Savannah, you knew some of the
people mentioned in "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil?"

Segment Synopsis: Question: You knew some of the people mentioned in Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil? Answer: Yes, she admitted to knowing Jim Williams and the murder victim. She mused about Savannah being a strange place, being asked which church she went to, being an “inbred society,” and the racial segregation and brutality. She regretted the educational divisions in the US.

Keywords: Jim Williams; Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil; Racism and discrimination in the Southern US

01:34:01 - Late-1970s; Summer sessions on environmental and health hazards for artists

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Partial Transcript: "So, we're back at the University [of Wisconsin]. That was

Segment Synopsis: Question: The late 70s? Answer: Kreilick remarked that the other thing she tried to introduce was summer sessions on art hazards for school teachers by Monona Rossol. She discussed inviting a speaker during the summer of 1979 and inviting school teachers from Racine, etc; as well as the success of the program.

Keywords: Health hazards for artists; Monona Rossol

01:39:43 - Report on health hazards in Humanities Building/Art Department

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Partial Transcript: "So while she was here, I said 'what you ought to do is
look around our department and give us a critique.'"

Segment Synopsis: [no question] While Rossol was in town, Kreilick asked her to critique the UW art department; she discovered insufficient ventilation for cast plastics, lacquers, thinners; fumes in classrooms; clay dust; as well as problems in the Humanities building. After a report was made to the chair, the course was never retaught and she never saw the report again.

Keywords: Health hazards; Humanities Building; Report on health conditions; Ventilation, fumes, and dust

01:45:00 - Working conditions in the Department; Health of colleagues

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Partial Transcript: "You you were not turning your back on the process here,
after having your course dropped in 78' 79', here you're trying something

Segment Synopsis: Question: So you hadn’t given up on UW because of the failure of your other efforts? Answer: Kreilick talked about the logic of using experts when they were on campus. Follow up: Did you colleagues talk to you about the report? Answer: No. Follow up: Was your health affected by the building? Answer: No. She was just working in paint, but others working with plastics were. She talked about several colleagues who died young from cancer.

Keywords: Deparrtmental report; Health conditions

01:49:19 - Relationship between Art Department and UW Art Museum

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Partial Transcript: "One of the other areas I want to ask you about now that
we're in the 70s is about the relationship between the Elvehjem museum and the
Art Department."

Segment Synopsis: Question: Talk about the relationship between the art museum and the department—specifically the faculty shows. Answer: She speculated that there wasn’t enough work from faculty for an annual faculty show; and discussed how work was admitted to the show. Follow up: Did you enjoy that show? Answer: She again remarked not being able to see what other people were doing in the new building, and that there was no other relationship between the art museum and the department at that time. She lamented that the museum never took advantage of all the experts in different department on campus—used Germanists as example.

Keywords: Elvehjem museum; Faculty art shows; Interdisciplinarity in other departments

01:55:14 - Paining in the early 1980s; reflections on art education

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Partial Transcript: "So we're now at the University looking at your career in
the early 1980s. What's new, what directions are you going

Segment Synopsis: Question: What new in the 1980s? Answer: Kreilick discussed doing more painting than sculpture because she didn’t have the equipment to sculpt; and teaching the color course. Follow up: Commissions? Answer: None; she talked again about the church commission she’d failed to get. She mentioned visiting UNC-Winston-Salem, the communication between the arts which she felt was lacking at UW, and her lament that art students aren’t broadly educated, which she attributed to the “smorgasbord education” of the 1960s.

Keywords: 1980s; Color class; UNC-Winston-Salem

02:02:14 - Art Department in the 1980s; reflections on career thus far; Lady Liberty

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Partial Transcript: "Talk if you would, about what the Art Department is like
in the 1980s. Who are the significant figures, what events are going

Segment Synopsis: Question: Talk about the department in the 1980s. Answer: Kreilick discussed the growth of the department through cluster hires; more women coming. Follow up: You were very committed to your own work while at UW. Were you happy? Answer: Kreilick responded she was glad she chose her profession and felt fulfilled. She also reminisced about the building of Lady Liberty on the lake, her admiration of its symbolic statement, and one of her students who was involved.

Keywords: Cluster hires; Lady Liberty; women faculty

02:08:24 - Retirement; Memorable interactions with and learning from students

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Partial Transcript: "You retire in 1991. When do you start thinking about
retirement? What's it like for an artist to think about

Segment Synopsis: Question: Talk about thinking about retirement. Answer: Kreilick remarked that an artist only retires from her students—she missed them, but otherwise has more time for her work. Follow up: What did you learn from them? Answer: She told an anecdote about a visual perception exercise during which a Chinese student explained the spacing and aesthetics of calligraphy.

Keywords: Calligraphy; Retirement; Student experiences

02:12:59 - Reflections on retirement and changes in student body

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Partial Transcript: "You came to the University in 1953, and retired in 1991.
That's 28 years on the faculty. What did you think about your career

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did you assess your 38-year career? Answer: Kreilick said she didn’t think about it because she had so much to do on the home front. Question: Did the student body change over time? Answer: No, not really; she said students’ age and what they’ve seen becomes relevant to their perspective. Question: Any students you take particular pride in having taught? Answer: She talked about what “significance” means in art and whether she wanted it for herself. She and Lange again talked about the church commission and truth and abstraction.

Keywords: Art and abstraction; Changes in student body; Home studio; Retirement

02:19:57 - End of Third Interview Session