Interview with Gloria Moy

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #

GLORIA MOY

MOY, GLORIA (19-)

Nursing student

At UW:

Interviewed: 2019

Interviewer: Faith Hoffmeyer

Index by: Sophie Clark

Transcribed by: Teresa Bergen

Length: 78 minutes

First Interview Session (May 12, 2020): Digital File

00:00:00

FH: We are recording. To start, today is Tuesday, May 12, 2020. My name is Faith Hoffmeyer and this is a phone interview for the Madison General Hospital School of Nursing Oral History Project with Gloria Moy. Gloria, can you please spell your first and last name for an audio check?

GM: That's G-l-o-r-i-a M-o-y.

FH: Thank you. So, jump into questions. Do you mind if we begin with your early life and talk a bit about where you grew up?GM: Sure.

FH: Where did you grow up?

GM: Oh, actually, I was born in Hong Kong.

FH: Oh, wow.

GM: And let's see, came to the States in 1948. Actually, December of '47. And lived in California and Ohio before coming to Wisconsin.

FH: What made your family move from Hong Kong?

GM: Actually, my mother and I came, you know, well, I was born in Hong Kong and we lived there during the war. And we actually went back into mainland China for some time when the Japanese occupied Hong Kong. And then came back to Hong Kong as soon as the war was over. And let me see. My parents were married. And then my father came to the United States actually before I was born. And then he was here during the war. And of course he couldn't go back, and my mom and I 00:02:00couldn't come here until after the war. And so that's why we were not together until 1947, December. And so that's when I first came to America.

FH: And how old were you?

GM: I was eight.

FH: Do you remember that experience pretty well? And do mind telling us a bit more about it? What it was like coming to the US, that transition?

00:02:34

GM: No, I don't mind. I mean, what questions do you have?

FH: What was the transition like coming from Hong Kong to the US, and what was it like growing up during the war?

GM: I don't really, you know, I mean as far as the times we spent in mainland China was during, you know, I mean, I think both Hong Kong and China was being 00:03:00attacked. And I don't remember a lot about it, but from what my aunt and my mother, they used to tell me that they had to go hide when they knew that the Japanese soldiers were coming. And then you know, they said into the mountains. I mean, all of which I don't remember very well. I was only with my aunt and my mother and of course some relatives, because they were in the village where our family had relatives and property or whatever. And then my grandmother and grandfather stayed in Hong Kong.

FH: Oh, I see.

GM: And like I say, most of what I remember is just being with my mom and aunt, 00:04:00and you know, that they were doing the whatever they had to do to survive.

FH: Wow.

GM: So I mean, it was an experience that you know, I mean, I was probably quite young. And either you know chose not to remember too many things or whatever the situation. But I actually don't remember very much about it. Only that you know, it was where my mom and aunt were.

FH: And when you moved to California, what did your parents do for work?

GM: My father worked in the restaurant business. He was, at the time when we 00:05:00came, he was working for, like let me see. I think he actually was working for places like the Fairmount Hotel, where he was doing maître d' and that type of--my father, okay, my father, when he was over here, actually he was over here by himself. And he originally came to Beloit. And then worked in the restaurant in Beloit, which is still there, called the Chop House. And from there, at some point or another, he got to California. And during the war, I think he was in Canada doing, let me see, he was like a telegraph operator for the civilian, you 00:06:00know, for some civilian, you know, the government, but not in the services. So he was a radio operator. Yeah, so when we first, okay, so he was able to bring us over, like I say, like in '47. So it was like '48, probably, almost, when I came. And at that time, because we were in San Francisco Chinatown.

And they had a special class for, apparently there were quite a few, there was at least a few Chinese that were immigrating into San Francisco or Chinatown area. So they had a special class for us. Because at that time, I didn't speak 00:07:00any English at all, you know. So it was like accelerated learning in the language. Because by that time, I had already been to school in Hong Kong. And I was, I think, probably like in the second grade. So second grade, you know, I was able to probably like read the simple parts of the newspaper or that type of education in Chinese. So when I entered the classes, it was basically trying to learn English. Because mathematics wasn't a problem, because I had math over 00:08:00there. So it was just a concentration of English and, yeah. Trying to catch up.

FH: How long was that class? How long did it take to learn English?

00:08:18

GM: I don't really--well, okay, we lived in California for about maybe three years. Then we moved to Cincinnati. And by that time, I must have been able to speak English because I was integrated, there was, you know, no more Chinese schools or anything else. So actually, the school in California was just a regular public school. It's just that they had this one class. So by the time I came to Cincinnati, I was in the regular classroom.

FH: And why did you--oh, I'm sorry to interrupt.

GM: Go ahead. Why did what?

FH: Why did you move to Cincinnati?

GM: Oh, my parents went into business. Because okay, my father was being employed by whatever. And he was offered an opportunity to be in the restaurant business, you know, with a cousin of his. Distant cousin, you know, of his. And so he chose to try his hand at business. Which was a Chinese restaurant. And so that was in Cincinnati.

And in Cincinnati is where, I think I probably went there oh, by the time I was like in the fifth grade or something. I think I went into there, into the fifth grade. So I must have been in California. Then they put me in like a fifth grade 00:10:00class. And so I think, yeah, then I went to high school in Cincinnati. And because I was, I was still older than my classmates, you know, because I didn't start until I was nine, eight or nine. So I think I did high school in three years in Cincinnati. And so by the time I graduated from high school, I was still probably like a year older than, oh, I was nineteen. So whatever, most of the kids were probably like eighteen.

FH: I see. Were you the only child?

GM: I was when I was in Hong Kong. And then my brother was born, actually almost 00:11:00like a little over a year after we came to the United States. And then I have two sisters that are like another five years, so it's like ten years between my brother and I, and fifteen between my first sister, and seventeen between my young sister.

FH: Wow.

GM: So you know, so I was like the only child for a while, and then I had siblings.

FH: And was there anything in your background that guided you toward a nursing education?

00:11:40

GM: Actually I would say probably not. You know, I mean, I don't know if back in the days of my, you know, when I was going to school, there weren't as many opportunities available as there would be now. So things that were available to 00:12:00people were teaching, secretarial, medical. And I mean, that's what I probably felt, that those were the avenues that were open. You know, I mean I think that I was probably more inclined toward other things. Like architecture or home decorating or things like that much more than I was into medicine. Medicine, you know, also kind of like, I didn't think that, I mean, I could be a doctor because at that time my father was not, I didn't think that he could support me 00:13:00being in a--well, nursing was a lot more of a reality. Because it was, you know, I mean I had scholarships. And I didn't think I could do a scholarship as being a doctor. And the time element of being a doctor. And I wasn't so sure that I really was, that wasn't an aspiration of mine. So it was kind of like a multiple choice. And this would work, and that doesn't seem possible type of thing. It was kind of like oh, okay, well, what--and you do process of elimination. Meaning that teaching didn't seem like it was something that that would be an avenue. And certainly secretarial wasn't an avenue, of being English not my native, my first language. And so you know, it was kind of like okay, you know, 00:14:00what do I want to do? Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like oh, I really want to take care of people. Or I like to, yeah. No, it wasn't that kind of a thought process.

FH: I see. What was your perception of nursing school prior to attending?

GM: What do you mean? What I thought that it would be?

FH: What expectations did you have?

GM: Expectation? I think my expectation probably was that it was a job that would be something that I might be interested in and was a good profession. Yeah. It was something that was an occupation.

FH: And how did you end up at Madison General in particular?

GM: Okay. Okay. At the time that I applied for nursing school, I was going to school in Cincinnati. I graduated in Cincinnati. And actually I had applied for 00:16:00school in Cincinnati and was accepted to whatever school that I had applied to. And then my parents moved. So they moved to Monroe. Actually, they moved to Monroe before I graduated.

FH: In high school?

GM: Yeah. They moved in the middle of my senior year. And I think I chose to stay in Cincinnati so that I could finish. And so I stayed with a friend. So you know, I mean, I guess I was pretty much on my own. I don't think my parents made that decision for me, now that I'm thinking about it. I mean, I don't think they 00:17:00suggested that I stay there. I never thought about it, but I'm pretty sure that it was my decision to do that. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, I chose to stay and graduate in Cincinnati. And then they had already moved by that time. So I must have applied to Madison General. And so, yeah, it was just another kind of like circumstance that had me apply. And I remember applying, I remember I must have applied. And I think I had a scholarship. Which, I mean, it wasn't very much, 00:18:00you know. Our tuition wasn't very much.

FH: I can imagine.

GM: And I can't even remember what the tuition was, but it couldn't have been very much. And the scholarship wasn't very much. I'm sure it was like, you know, in the hundreds of dollars, that was all. It wasn't even like a thousand dollars. And I'm sure that the tuition wasn't even that much, either. And so I guess my decision to come to Madison was to be closer to the family.

FH: And what years did you attend Madison General Hospital School of Nursing?

00:18:56

GM: Madison General at that time was a three-year program.

FH: What year were you there for?

GM: Oh, what year. It must have been in 1957, because we graduated in 1960. Yeah, it was a three-year program. And incidentally, another reason probably why I probably decided to come to Madison General was, okay, now back to, I mean, I told you that my father came to work in Beloit when he first came to America to a restaurant in Beloit. Also, with that restaurant was a family which were cousins. And the eldest daughter was, she graduated from Madison General and would have been, I don't know how many years before me. I would say probably anywhere between five and maybe ten years. Okay. And of course she was the first 00:20:00Chinese person to be in Madison General. So that kind of helped me to decide that that's a good place to, you know, if I was going to a nursing school, why not here than down in Ohio. Because she had graduated from Madison General. Anyway. So that was probably a determining factor why I came to Madison General.

FH: What was it like? Was your class mostly white?

GM: Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you ever look at any of the yearbooks, I'm sure that prior to, prior to my cousin being there, it was all white. And of course in 00:21:00between her year and my year, it was always white. And of course my class was all white. And I don't think, I think maybe, not until a couple of classes after me that was there, did I notice, in whatever, a color person being as part of the class. So I would say that I was the first minority. My cousin and then me and then a couple of years after me. So prior to that it was all--and not only, not only in the, I can't speak for what was happening before, but I notice that the other schools which we affiliated with, like Methodist Hospital and whatever other hospitals we were, most of the students were all white. So you know, I 00:22:00guess this is Wisconsin, you know?

FH: Yeah. Yeah.

GM: So, you know, the minorities were not going into nursing school. And so, yeah. It was all, people were from all over the state. My classmates were from all over. As a matter of fact, probably fewer were from the Madison area. We were all, when we'd go home, everybody was going someplace else. If there was anybody from Madison, yeah, I don't even know. But real close, like Viroqua and all different places. And Wausau. I know that some of the people were from, no, 00:23:00Poughkeepsie isn't in Wisconsin, too. So no, I think mostly Wisconsinites.

FH: What were your first impressions of Madison?

00:23:26

GM: Well, it wasn't much different than Cincinnati. I mean, Cincinnati and I would think that Cincinnati and Madison were very, very comparable cities. They were both university cities, and they all had about the same, not too much difference in size. And I would say a lot of the same population of Germans and Scandinavians and what have you. So I don't think that was too different. Being, 00:24:00you know, it's the size of the city. So they had the same amenities. So I didn't find it much different than Cincinnati, where I was. Or actually not too much different than, at that time, San Francisco. So, yeah, I didn't find any, I think, I didn't have a different impression of Madison one way or the other. You know, people were, well, at least the people that I associated with, did not discriminate. And so yeah, it was kind of like home. (phone ringing) I'll have 00:25:00to turn off this phone.

FH: No problem.

GM: Okay. All right. So, where were we? About--

FH: Well, my next question is whether you remember how large your class was. How many people?

GM: I think there were forty-two of us. And yeah. I think there were forty-two of us. And I think we graduated thirty-two. So we lost ten along the way. Right, right. Yeah. So some of them quite early and all the way to the very end. Because my good friend didn't graduate. She only had a couple of months left. 00:26:00That's quite a story in itself. She wanted to graduate. But the person she was going with and was going to marry, said to her, you know, "You don't need your degree. I'll take care of you." And she did that. And would you believe it, he died very young.

FH: Oh, that's horrible.

GM: So she did need her diploma. You know, so that's the irony of that story. Yeah. Because when she didn't get her diploma and he passed away, like I say, probably in his forties, she wasn't able to practice. And so she, yeah, so she lost out in that part of it. Which is, yeah, such a shame. Because I mean, I 00:27:00think it was within months of her graduation that he--it must have been. Because he graduated, the university graduated earlier than us. And so you know, so it must have been like May or June or whatever. And I think we graduated in like September. Because ours was a three-year program, so it went probably from September to September. So, like I say, and they graduated. So it was just months. And we all kind of said, well, you know, "No, you should do it. You should finish." And then of course she was in a hurry to go wherever his, whether he had a job or whatever it was, that he didn't wanted her to wait. And so she didn't graduate with us.

FH: Wow.

GM: Yeah. That was one thing that I was really, really quite saddened by. Because it was like oh, you know, she should have stayed. Let him do whatever he had to do and go there in a couple of months.

00:28:21

FH: Yeah. So close.

GM: And you know, then when I found out that when he passed away she couldn't be a nurse. I didn't know whether she would have wanted to. But she end up doing an upholstery business. Which was certainly not what she was trained to do, and never used her nursing education. Yeah, that was sad. And I never talked to her about how she felt about that. Maybe I'll call her. As a matter of fact, I just talked to her recently. After I talked to you I thought oh, I should talk to some of my classmates. And I hadn't talked to her in a long time. So I had 00:29:00called her up and we chit chatted. But now that we have a lot of phone time, maybe I'll call her and ask her how she felt about all of that. Because we never discussed that, as to what she felt about it. Yeah.

FH: Definitely. Well did you live in the dorms?GM: Oh, yeah! All of us did.

FH: Will you tell me a bit about that?

GM: It was part of the program. You didn't live by yourself or you didn't go, you know. For the whole three full years, we all lived together.

FH: Were you in McConnell Hall?

GM: Yeah. We were in McConnell Hall. Mm hmm.

FH: And what was that experience like? Did you enjoy it?

GM: Oh, yeah! It was fun. Because, okay, first of all, we all went to classes 00:30:00together. And if classes were in McConnell Hall itself or in the hospital. And actually, for the first year, we attended at the university. You knew that, right?

FH: Yes.

GM: Okay. Well, so we would like walk to class because it was like, I don't know, maybe, I don't know how far. I thought it was over a mile or whatever. I mean, I know that it was over a mile. But I don't know how much over a mile it was. So we would all walk to class. And I remember when it was like really, really cold one couple of times, we would hop into a cab. (laughs) But most of the time, we just walked. And had classes. Especially, I mean, I don't remember 00:31:00what classes we had there. Like anatomy and physiology and the regular courses that, not the nursing ones. So, yeah. We all did that. Yeah, you know, and we had a friend, you know, it was kind of funny, she said oh, why did I end up with the friends that I had, we're, you know, closer together with. And we figured out that okay, I think they must have housed us either alphabetically or something. Because my friends were at the end of the alphabet. (laughter) And so I said, oh, well did that come about because we were in closer proximity of our 00:32:00rooms? Or how did that happen? And then I kind of felt that somehow some of the other people that were also, you know, you always have clusters of friends or whatever. And when I kind of looked at that and said oh, yeah, a lot of the earlier parts of the alphabets were more clumpy together than we were, end of the alphabet clumpy together. So it was kind of fun. I mean, gee, did we not venture out any further than the room next door? (laughter) So anyway, but it might be a coincidence. I don't know. I have no idea.

FH: Are you still in touch with some of the people clumped in the alphabet with you?

00:32:55

GM: Oh. Well, see, we touched base, like we used to, we just had a ten-year 00:33:00reunion. And so we were having those. And other than that, then there was like a half a dozen people that I was still keeping in touch with more than the others. Because the others, you know, you would hear the whatever, and you would hear what was going on. But the people that you correspond with would be the ones that you had always been friends with to begin with. And there were, yeah, there would be like about half a dozen you'd correspond with each other throughout the years.

FH: What was the food--

GM: Also we, none of the people I knew, there are probably others that were close enough to be, other than the Christmas cards and the whatever, we were not 00:34:00like inviting each other to weddings or things like that. Because, I don't know, you know, many of us were, when we got married, were quite separated. We all kind of went our different ways. Because I met my husband and was married in New York. And many of the others, like the girl that I was telling you about, she got married before we graduated and moved to West Bend. Oh, South Bend, not West Bend. South Bend. And one of my other friends, she met her husband and they lived in Thailand. So, you know, we all kind of separated. It's kind of funny 00:35:00because now I've been in Wisconsin, or closer to Wisconsin than we were when we were married. Yeah. So, yeah, it was kind of interesting. And--

FH: And what--oh, I'm sorry.

GM: What was that?

FH: I was going to ask about the food. How was the food in the dorms and in the hospital?

GM: Well, nothing to, I guess nothing to complain about and nothing to brag about. (laughter) Hospital food. You know, it was, I mean, yeah. So that's how I would describe it. Cafeteria. Nothing too--at least for me. I don't know if somebody else would, cafeteria food. So, yeah. But me, my family being in the 00:36:00restaurant business, you know, I mean, I certainly didn't think it was anything to brag about. And of course it was nutritious and whatever. So I didn't have any comments about it one way or the other. Yeah.

FH: What were some of the social or recreational activities that you and your friends were engaged in?

00:36:32

GM: Well, I mean, some of it was kind of like class-related. But I think a lot of it was on our own. We, you know, because that was one of the other things. The last time I talked to the people as to what they remember. And we did kind 00:37:00of have some socials that were part of the school. And you know, I mean, everybody remembered that we used to have, maybe bimonthly basis, like teas. They just kind of had us get dressed up and had tea and cookies or whatever it was. And then we also had dances that I think, let me see, I don't know how often that was. And so what it was was that they invited, I would think dorms to, male, you know, dormitories to come over. So there were dances. And other 00:38:00than that, I don't, I mean, we would be going out on our own more than anything. I remember going to, you know, picnics and beaches. Yeah. And we also, let me see, there were a couple of us that visited, one of the girls lived on a farm. And we went down there and you know, she had horses. And so that's where I learned to ride. But I mean, we're talking about horses with no saddle, no anything. We were being barebacked and grabbed on for dear life and just riding. 00:39:00(laughter) It wasn't like where you're learning how to ride in a stable or anything like that. It was just hopping onto a horse with somebody boosting you up and away you go. (laughter) It was like, hang on for dear life!

FH: It sounds a little terrifying.

GM: No but I mean, that's where I learned to do things that were different. Because like me, I had never been on a farm. Yeah. So, yeah, so we did have some, and of course I remember we, you know, some of us went to different churches. And of course everybody, that was kind of, whoever, if you went to the 00:40:00same church as somebody else, or you did that. Yeah. And of course a lot of us were dating UW students or whomever we met, either from outside activities or like some of the people met people at the dances. Or, yeah. So it was kind of like they were trying to keep us sociable. If you weren't doing that on your own anyway.

FH: And so moving on to your education, can you describe some of the nursing art skills that you learned?

GM: The nursing what?

FH: Nursing art skills. Like drawing blood, changing linens, stuff of that nature.

GM: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was like, yeah, no, I mean, we learned, you know, how to do the beds. You know, your square corners, right away. It was probably one of the things. And then you had, I think we had a mannequin or whatever you call that we practiced, Mrs. Chase, or something like that. Yeah. And so, many of the classes were given, I don't remember if they were in the hospital or where. And maybe, I don't even remember if we had the classrooms in the dorm, in McConnell Hall. And of course you practiced, I'm sure, making, 00:42:00well, there must have been a bed somewhere besides what was in the hospital. And we would practice, I don't know if we'd practice, well, we'd practice on each other things like back rubs. And what else? Yeah.

FH: What did you practice on each other?

GM: Injections. Yeah, yeah, injections into oranges. Yeah. And lifting and what have you. Yeah, we must have practiced on each other. Yeah. All the nursing 00:43:00instructors, some of them were, there were a couple of them that seemed to have been with us the whole three years. And others taught us maybe just a particular class, like OB or pediatrics, we came to Milwaukee. To Milwaukee Children's. And then we were in the VA hospital. I don't know what that affiliation was for specifically. But I know that we went to Children's Hospital and Mendota.

43:47

FH: Mendota Psychiatric Hospital?

GM: Yeah. For our psychiatric training. So, yeah. We did Mendota and we did Children's here in Milwaukee and then we did VA. Yeah, so we had, you know. And 00:44:00when we did those, we were mixed with the other schools. They would have, like, because they rotate all of us, we didn't all go at the same time. So if we were at Children's, they would have thirty of us or whatever. And they would be from Saint Mary's and Methodist and what other schools that were between Madison and Milwaukee.

FH: Can you talk about those experiences, starting with Milwaukee Children's Hospital? What was that like?

GM: I don't remember it being any different than any other hospital. I mean, it was Children's Hospital, so we were there to learn taking care of children. But 00:45:00I don't, you know, I mean, the hospital wasn't any different.

FH: Did you enjoy working with children?

GM: Oh, yeah! No, I was, no, I enjoy that. And I remember, oh, and then we had a, I don't know if it was a separate affiliation with OB. Yeah, and somebody had just reminded me that when we were doing our OB affiliation, we were all scrubbed in to watch a delivery. And the doctor that was delivering mistook me for a doctor and told me to deliver the baby.

FH: Oh my God. (laughter)

GM: And somebody commented that, "Hey, yeah, remember the time when Dr. whatever his name is told Gloria to deliver the baby?"

FH: What did you do?

GM: Oh, corrected him! I'm not the doctor! (laughs) Yeah. So, yeah. And, oh, yeah, then we had our, yeah, no, we had different affiliations with different groups. Yeah.

46:40

FH: And in the VA Hospital, this was in the late '50s, right?

GM: Yeah.

FH: So during this period, were you experiencing patients with PTSD from Vietnam?

GM: You know, I don't think so. I don't think maybe those terms were even, yeah. 00:47:00I don't think that we were in the mode of you know, at least we weren't brought aware of, and I would think that we did not think about when we were in the situations to be thinking about emotional. I think that the only time that probably we were pushed into the emotions was probably in the psychiatric setting. I think we weren't as geared to you know, listening or being aware of, 00:48:00yeah. I think that came later. Because back in the '60s, at least I wasn't in tune to all of that. And of course I don't think they were teaching us to be aware of that type of situation. I think that came much later.

FH: What was your experience at Mendota like?

GM: Okay. Mendota, you know, I mean, it was probably, I mean, I, all of the, I would say all of the experiences as a nurse was all new to me. Because you don't, you know, and of course Mendota was probably the part where we were 00:49:00being, you know, shown what institutionalized patients were like. And of course we probably saw the most severe cases. You know, so you're looking at people that were, I mean, back in that time, people were institutionalized and they were put on things like Thorazine, which knocked them out. And they were walking around basically like zombies. And I think that was the treatment at the time. 00:50:00Because I don't know if I saw it so much at Mendota. Because like my first, I went to work after I graduated in a place where it was a psychiatric hospital. And we were doing a lot of shock treatments at the time. So I think that that was pretty close to the time where we were training. So the modality of treatment was, like I say, we were doing shock treatments. We were doing insulin, you know, coma. We were putting patients under insulin coma [SFP?] 50:49 things like that, as treatment. So, because when I went to work, that's what I did. And I'm sure that that was the protocol of the time. So therefore, 00:51:00we must have saw that same type of patients, you know, when I was training at Mendota. Because they were basically put into very, very things like the Thorazine was a big thing I think and insulin therapy was a big thing, and so was shock therapy. And so those were the type of people we were, you know, being shown. Or to take care of. So--

FH: And what were--oh, I'm sorry.

GM: Oh, no. go ahead.

51:52

FH: What were your academic classes like? Besides the ones at the university.

GM: Basically what I remember is all the things that we were supposed to read, 00:52:00had to learn. You know, I remember anatomy and I remember you know, anatomy, physiology and things like that. And then of course the nursing classes, we were taught by our own instructors. And they were, I don't know if I have any recollection of them being any, you know, any different or whatever. Yeah, no. As far as classes for me, you know, science was never a problem as far as I was 00:53:00concerned. Because it was new for everybody. And so therefore I was learning, you know, at the same time as everybody else. And so they were never a problem for me. So as far as any, and because there wasn't anything like, you know, English literature or anything like that, so all the classes were okay for me. You know, some people had difficulties with some of the sciences. But, you know. Yeah.

And then as far as the nursing arts, they were all new to all of us. Things like pharmacology was all new to all of us. And so it was, yeah, it was things that 00:54:00we had to learn. But nothing that I recall being unusual.

FH: And were there any faculty that you remember that played an important role in your education? Or any experiences that stand out with a faculty member or a nurse or a teacher?

GM: Not that they stood out. But you know, I remember that we had a nursing director that was Smith and the other one was Schmidt. (laughter) So those were two names that you kind of remembered, because there was a Smith and a Schmidt, and one was a director and the other one was nursing. Whatever. They were the ones that stayed with us the whole three years with the names that were so similar. And you know, I mean, they were, you know, tough in that they needed, you know, they had us doing whatever we had to do. But you know, yeah, and so 00:55:00they were fine. Nothing that I, you know, I mean, they certainly weren't, remember being mean or they weren't anything like that. So, yeah, they were good educators.

FH: Do you think that there were any practices or methods that you learned that might be considered unusual today?

GM: No. I mean, you know, we were taught what probably was the protocol for the time. And I don't think any of them were you know, things that I think oh, we shouldn't have been doing that. You know, that was just basic things that had to 00:56:00be learned to be a caregiver. No, I can't think of anything that what we learned was wrong. Yeah. No, you know, I always think that, you know, Madison General put out a bunch of really good nurses.

FH: What do you think makes a good nurse?

GM: Well, somebody who has compassion and are able to, you know, help the patient in their physical and emotional, you know, when they can. Yeah. Because, 00:57:00you know, I mean, I now admire all the nurses that are out there now that are doing their, I mean, they're out there taking care of people, no matter what the circumstances are. And you know, I think that gee, that would, it's a difficult thing to do. And I kind of like, I wonder what my feeling would have been had I be put into a situation such as what we're facing now.

FH: Yeah.

GM: You know, it's like oh, how would I feel about that? Yeah. It's a difficult position to put somebody in right now when you're faced with, then still be able 00:58:00to do your job. Yeah, it's really, yeah. It's kind of like, I'm glad that I'm not being put in that situation now.

FH: Definitely.

58:24

GM: You know? Because it's really, really, and I think all of us when we were back in the days when we were first practicing, you know, it's like a whole different, you know, you do things that you wouldn't think of doing. You know, like now. I think that's what the whole profession is like the people that are doing things now, you know, we did that when we were young. But now we're, I 00:59:00mean, we're even way too old to be thinking about anything else, anyway. But to think about what's going on now is really scary.

FH: Definitely.

GM: Yeah. I mean, I certainly am glad that I went through my training. Although after I graduated, I wasn't, there were particular parts of nursing that I didn't want to be in. And you know, so I chose parts of the, my education in a different route, actually, than as in the hospital setting.

FH: What do you mean by that?

GM: When I went, you know, after I did, I mean, even in doing, in doing like my 01:00:00first jobs were, I was doing the psychiatric, you know. But even then, I actually did in the area of insulin therapy and also in the shock treatment, it was away from the hospital setting, really. And then when I, later on, I only did that for a couple of years. And then my children were, came, and the other job that I had was in the office. And that again was away from the hospital. And 01:01:00then when I went back to work after the children were grown, I went for working in the insurance industry. Which told me that I was kind of staying away from the hospital.

FH: Yeah. Why do you think that was?

GM: You know, yeah. And so I used my education not in the hospital setting, but I took the knowledge and did something else.

FH: What do you think it was about the hospital setting that made you want to stay away from it?

GM: I guess I wasn't, well, I don't know. I think basically it's because of the, I don't know. Okay. At the time in which we were doing it, I didn't want to be a 01:02:00bedside nurse. I wasn't, yeah. I wasn't, I mean, I just wasn't, yeah, I didn't want to be a bedside nurse. I certainly didn't like things when people die. I didn't like, yeah, it was what I didn't like about certain aspect of the, yeah, I didn't want to be doing that.

1:02:40

FH: And your first job was at a psychiatric hospital. Where was that, and how long did you work there?

GM: Uh huh. I probably worked there for about, let me see, for probably about maybe a year. A little over a year.

FH: Where was it?

GM: That was in New York.

FH: Oh.

GM: It was at Gracie Square. And that's when I did the, you know, when there was a doctor that was putting patients under. And then we took care, an aide and I that took care of the patient after they were waking up. And we took care of them that way. And then also at some time along the way, then actually I was working in the operating area where the people were being shocked, you know, and then we took care of them after they, when they came out of the shock therapy.

So again, now that I'm talking about it, that was not bedside nursing, per se.

FH: And what did you do after you worked at this hospital?

GM: Then I worked in surgery.

FH: In surgery?

GM: Again, that was not, that was not a, that was not the normal patient and nurse contact.

FH: And was that at the same hospital?

GM: So that was in the Marine Hospital in New York. So that was again a different setting than, yeah. So I was trying these different avenues of setting besides being a bedside nurse. Now that we're talking about it, that's probably what I was kind of steering away from.

FH: Was there a setting in your career that you enjoyed the most?

GM: I guess now that we're talking about it, in the, okay, see, I didn't work a 01:05:00very long time in any of those. Like the surgery and the psych, those were like probably one year. And then I didn't work for quite a few years when the children were young. So actually, I worked as an active nurse in the hospital probably for, at the most, like three years in my career.

FH: I see.

GM: Yeah. So I mean actually, I didn't do any bedside nursing except for the time I was in training. Yeah, so, yeah, no, now that I'm thinking about it, I mean, I'm probably not somebody you should be interviewing for-- (laughs)

FH: Not at all. No.

GM: But a regular nursing nursing.

FH: No, but that's what makes this project great. We get to hear so many different experiences.

1:06:09

GM: Yeah, because I mean, there are many of my colleagues nursing, you know, that worked their whole life, their whole career, in the hospital, and that's what they did. And now that you and I are talking about that, I didn't do any of that.

FH: Well are there any memorable moments in any of your careers that you'd like to share?

GM: Oh, I mean, I worked in, you know, I mean as far as the insurance industry, and that was very interesting. I enjoyed that. And what this was, was during the time in which computers were coming into existence, you know, big time in billing. And so when I went to work at the insurance industry what it was was 01:07:00that they were hiring doctors and nurses to work on their billing, you know. So what it was was that we had to decipher like the surgeries or, yeah, you know, because they were being paid and they were being coded. And so we had to almost like decide what is the value of surgeries, you know, you put a value to a surgery. And of course that's connected to a code. And codes are pay in, whatever. And that's how payments are being determined. And so, you know, so 01:08:00establishing that whole system of payment and what it was was in the insurance industry. And I was working for Blue Cross and Blue Shield. And you know, so it was a, it was new. And I like the challenge of all of that, and see how it was going to work at the end. And so I enjoy that. So again, it was using my medical knowledge but not, you know, in an entirely different avenue.

FH: Definitely. Did you ever--

GM: Yeah. So, yeah. I did that, that was my longest, I mean, I did that for over ten years. Of course, everything was new and it was a system. And we were being 01:09:00the people that were kind of like guiding that system through the medical portion of it. You put your medical input into what the computer experts were doing. They were using your knowledge to say that hey, this surgery is more difficult than this one and whatever. So it requires a little bit more payment or whatever. And then they were trying to get it all into a system of payment. Yeah, so I think it was new and it was a challenge. I guess that's what I liked.

FH: It definitely shows how widely applicable a nursing education can be.

GM: Right, right, right. I think so. I think that's much, yeah. And yeah, because I never would have gotten the job and assignment if I did not have my nursing background. And then you could use it for something totally, I mean, not the hospital setting that you were trained in.

FH: Did you ever return to Madison?

GM: Oh, sure! I go to Madison, my children live by Madison. So I go there quite often. And actually my granddaughter, she graduated from Madison. And so during her graduation, we went and I was telling her what we did. And of course we'd go 01:11:00to eat downtown or even walk downtown to visit all the places that we used to eat at. And just go to the Union. Yeah. I do that with my, my son-in-law went to school there. So we go. And then both of my kids graduated from Whitewater. So, you know, I mean, but they live in Madison. So yeah, I visited quite a bit. Besides, I made all of the reunions. The ten-year and the twenty-year reunions that we're having at McConnell. And so I see some, you know, it's fun because 01:12:00our class is very diversified. You know, I don't know who you've been talking to. But we have a lawyer in the--did you talk to Linda Granger?

FH: I did not.

1:12:16

GM: She was, and Fort Atkinson, she was the district attorney.

FH: Wow.

GM: And then I think we had somebody who became a nun.

FH: Mm hmm. Yes.

GM: And of course Mary is a, she teaches nursing. And of course, like I say, one of our friends, she and her husband lived in Thailand for many years. There's a whole--oh, this is what I'm saying that as far as diversification of the nursing. I mean, you know, Linda, who became the district attorney, Fort 01:13:00Atkinson. I mean, that's as far away from nursing as you can get.

FH: (laughs) Yes. Definitely.

GM: Yeah. So, you know, some of us stayed. And others diversified into real different areas. Yeah. Yeah, and I bet you if you talk to more of the people, they, you know, I'm sure that they, have you interviewed others?

FH: Yes. About eighteen.

1:13:44

GM: Oh! Okay. I mean, were many of those eighteen had a diversified career?

FH: Yeah. A good amount. Lots of different types of nursing avenues. Some didn't 01:14:00go on to practice nursing for a long time, and some did. But definitely have seen what you are saying, this diversity in how they've applied their nursing education.

GM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't know what Linda is doing, but it would be interesting to see, her, you know, went into law and totally different.

FH: Definitely.

GM: Yeah. That's totally unrelated. Mine is at least a little bit more related to when I went in to work for the insurance industry.

FH: Well what advice would you give to future nursing students?

GM: What was that?

FH: What advice would you give to future nursing students?

GM: I would say probably, hmm. Enjoy what they're doing. Yeah, because now there's so many choices that a person can make. And you know, I mean, I feel that the people that are going into nursing are the ones that are dedicated. And that they just, you know, do and enjoy it.

FH: Well, that's all the questions I have, Gloria. Is there anything else you'd like to include in this interview about your career or your education or anything of the sort?

GM: Well, nothing that I can think of. We've talked--how long have we talked? (laughs)

FH: About an hour and fifteen.

GM: Oh, okay. Well, yeah, no, I mean, it's brought my attention to some things. And maybe I should probably get in contact with some of my classmates that I haven't spoken to for a while and reminisce about what we just talked about. Because you're bringing some kind of ideas into mind that I should, we should be doing.

FH: I'm glad. And if you ever have anything more you'd like to share with us for the project, we'd be happy to do a follow-up interview, too.

GM: Oh. And so what is, I mean, is this going to be published, or what, of your findings?

FH: Yes. Well, before, I'll explain everything about the project and everything. 01:18:0001:17:00But I'll just turn the recorder off. So I want to make sure that--unless there's anything else you want to say on the recording--

GM: No.

FH: --I will turn it off.

GM: Yeah, you can turn it off.

FH: Okay. Thank you.

1:17:17

End First Interview Session