Interview with Beth Ritter-Perry

Sophia Abrams 0:01

All right, this is Sophia Abrams interviewing Beth Ritter Perry. Today's date is Sunday, January 3. It is approximately 1:03pm Central time. I'm currently located in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and she is in Dallas, Texas. And this interview is for the UW Black Artists project. So my first question for you is, why UW Madison for grad school?

Beth Ritter Perry 0:32

Why UW Madison for grad school? Well, um, it's kind of a funny story behind that. I graduate, I've received my bachelor's from Austin Peay State University in Clarksville, Tennessee. And one of my main professors at the time was a man by the name of Larry Hortenbury, who was a UW-Madison graduate. And he had worked with Jack Damer, I think, and also Warrington Colescott. And I was really, really, really wanting to do silk screen at the time. And the only time that he did, he was he was printmaking professor and drawing, and the only time Mr. Hortenbury had that class was in the in the evenings while I'd work. And, um, I was always just really driven as an artist, as a creative. And one day, he pulled me aside, in his office, he said, and he told me about the advanced opportunity fellowship program, and asked me, "Well do you, have you even considered graduate school? Because you definitely have what it takes." And, you know, I kind of had and I hadn't, and the more he talked about it, you know, the more intrigued I was, and he said, "Well, should you decide you want to apply for it, just let me know. And, you know, I've still got a lot of contacts up there. And let's just see what happens. And everything fell into place beautifully. Now, it's funny because my father worked for the government, he worked for NASA. And he was one of the first black space science educators in that program, Spacemobile program, it was called back in the day. And he spent a lot of time in Minneapolis, he made a lot of contacts and stuff there. And he, his work took him up north a lot. And it was the funniest thing, because, you know, being in Tennessee, real temperate climate, and he'd always tell, "Beth, it gets cold up there." I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I can hang with that, you know." He said, "No Beth, it gets COLD up there." And, yeah, got it there. He wasn't playing. He wasn't joking. But, um, in retrospect, um, man, as an as I've been in education for 30 years or so now. And any high school kid that'll listen, I tell them all about my experience in Wisconsin and tell them, you're going to go to undergrad, graduate school, you've got to go to Wisconsin. It's, it's fantastic. And, you know, it's been what it's one of the most, it was one of the most exciting experiences of my life. One of the best, I fondly look back at Wisconsin.

Sophia Abrams 3:07

So upon deciding on going to graduate school, and then getting into UW Madison, what were some of your first impressions of the campus and the art department?

Unknown Speaker 3:19

My first impression of the campus was how huge it was. I mean, at the time, Clarksville, Tennessee, had maybe a population, area population, of maybe 52,000. And at the time, daggone, that was like, that was like the population of the school. And when I considered how many campuses and libraries, oh my gosh, I mean, I'm sure that they're even more libraries now. But at the time, I think they were like 20-some libraries. It just blew me away. And, you know, I'm kind of a nerd at heart anyway. I would just spend, I'd spent all of my time at the Elvehjem . I'd spent all my time at the main libraries. Oh my gosh, it was just, it was just amazing. Just amazing. Um, I've made some of my best friends there. I consider myself very much an international type. I love travel. And you know, my best friends were from Colombia, from Mexico, from, oh, gosh, Spain, everywhere, absolutely everywhere, and India. It was, it was just the most exciting experience. My last couple of years or so there. I lived at Rochdale International Co-Op, I think it's on Gorham, and just, just the best time, just the best time. Um, I'd tell anybody that UW-Madison if you're really interested in having a true worldview and learning about other people, other cultures and their ways and food and just culture and everything period, Madison's a wonderful place for it. That's, that's what really really got me into really got me interested in, in travel and just seeing the world and culture.

Sophia Abrams 5:10

So from that, what sort of pieces were you making your first semester?

Beth Ritter Perry 5:17

Oh gosh, my first semester, I was just trying to get my feet wet. Um, I took, let's see, let me think. Oh, you make me think. I took lithography with Jack Damer because that was another course that I always wanted to take was lithography. Um, and I did an independent study with Hal Lotterman , which was hazards in the arts, that's what it was where we learned about the different hazardous materials and how to work with them, which helped me which ultimately helped me a whole lot. When I ultimately got into silkscreen, um, because back then everything was oil-based, everything, everything. And now the water based 00:06:00inks are just so much better. I worked with Dean Meeker, then with the silkscreen silkscreen area. But yeah, that was my, those are my first my first classes. A lot of the imagery... At first, when I entered, I was really into photography, and I was thinking about possibly majoring in photography, and fashion photography, I was really into the work of Irving Penn, and people like Anthony Armstrong Jones, and, and, and all of them. And I would find ways to juxtapose those interests with, you know, what I was able to do with lithography. And it was a lot of fun, but it just wasn't, it just didn't have the graphic quality that silkscreening had. And that's what, that's what ultimately drove me down the hall to Dean, to Dean Meeker to work on silk screen.

Sophia Abrams 7:04

So from that kind of look, from the first semester, you were, I guess, kind of just figuring out what you want to do, trying new things. Were there any notable exhibitions, that first semester that you remember

Beth Ritter Perry 7:19

um, that first semester, no, like I said, I was just trying to get my feet wet. And to kind of get the lay of the land talk to I was one of the youngest people in in the graduate, I think I was the youngest person in the graduate program at that time, which, you know, it took me a minute to kind of wrap my head around that because so many of my, my colleagues had been out and working in the field for, you know, a long time many of them had been longtime educators, and then they decided to go back to graduate school and, you know, get the MFA and blah, blah, blah. And, um, yeah, it was, I was just trying, to just trying to find out, kind of like the teaching styles of different professors, and just kind of get a feel for where their heads were at. And if it would jibe with the types of things that I was interested in doing.

Sophia Abrams 8:13

So I guess from that, do you have any other notable experiences that you think are worthwhile to mention about your first semester, before we jump to your second semester?

Beth Ritter Perry 8:23

Oh, gosh, um. I guess the main thing was, you know, like I said, just, it was my first real time away from home, you know, a long ways away from home, although I did have relatives in Chicago that I would visit every so often. Um, the thing that sticks out the most is just, you know, getting out and meeting people making those initial, initial connections, and just, you know, finding my way around. That was the most important thing at the time.

Sophia Abrams 9:01

So then, I guess it's, spring semester starts, and that's 1983, I think? So then, how was that for you?

Beth Ritter Perry 9:16

Um, once I dug out of the snow, um, which was kind of a shock. I mean, I think at that point, I really started to think about, more and more about what it was that I wanted my creative voice to be. And at that time, I was still very much into photography, interested in fashion photography. And by that time, I'd signed on with Dean Meeker to, you know, initially get into silkscreen, which was so exciting. It was so much fun. Gosh, it was, it was nothing for me to go into the studio, at maybe two in the afternoon and maybe leave out at one in the morning. And I wasn't the only one. And we were always playing music and just just having a really good, good time creating. Um, oh, gosh, that and What else? What was the question?

Sophia Abrams 10:20

Just kind of your first, like impressions or I guess, experiences at the beginning of your second semester.

Beth Ritter Perry 10:32

Also, to just pop it back with it to the first semester. Um, and I guess it was just part of getting the lay of the land and find out what people are like, this is gonna sound crazy. I remember I was having some really weird experiences in stores. Like, you know, people really watching me, um, you know, and then I'd look around, and I'd notice, I was like, the only black person in there. And that would happen every so often. For a while, I was wondering, okay, is it just me, and then I talked, I talked to Janet Smith, and, and Don Michelle, and they were having the same experiences. But I noticed, too, that, um, after that first semester, that kind of ended, because Janet had told me and I had noticed the same thing, you go into a store, and people would like, you know, kind of get it physical as in like shoving you a little bit. And that happened maybe once. And when I shoved back and give them that look that would freeze fire. That's when people would kind of like, you know, "Hey, yo, you know, this one, this one might not want to do that." And Janet said that she had had the same experiences. But after that first, after that first semester that kind of ended, um, every so often, someone would have a snarky remark about the advanced opportunity fellowship. And are you familiar with that? Do they still have that AOF?

Sophia Abrams 12:01

I think they might. I talked to someone who graduated in 2007. And I know she had it, so I believe that they still do.

Beth Ritter Perry 12:10

Oh, that's great. That's great. Because, um, you know, every so often somebody would throw a snarky remark at me. I'll never forget, there was just one guy named Scott. And Scott had been, he was cool when we'd laugh, talk, spend a lot of time in the studio. And I guess his grades or something weren't going so well for him at some point. And I guess he decided he was gonna, you know, throw something about that fellowship at me. I said, "Look, why don't you just sit down on the curb. And let me give you a history lesson. And then I will explain to you the necessity of it. And he looked at me, and I looked at him, and he shut up, I never had any more problems. Um, um, you know, I'm real easy to go and live and let live, but you know, don't play crazy with me. So that's, that's kind of, that's kind of the direction that that went. But other than that, things just really opened up. People were, people were always really nice and, and welcoming, friendly, kind. People who, maybe in other circumstances, you never, I never would have imagined becoming good friends with. And, you know, that's, that's, that's the way Madison was back then.

Sophia Abrams 13:26

Um, from that, I guess, I'm kind of curious, just to know, in general, in terms of being a black artist, did you find that there were expectations that you had to make explicitly black art or very, like, you know, black-centric art?

Beth Ritter Perry 13:42

You know, what, a lot of folks that kind of had that expectation of, you know. Particularly that, you know, most blacks students, and it was just the three of us. It was me, Don, and Janet. And they were looking, a lot of people were looking for us to, you know, create exclusively Afro-centric work. And my work always had black subjects, because that's what I know best. And I've never felt as though I was jumping through anybody's hoops for any expectations, because I don't, that's not our role. This is not what I do. Um, I was creating images that I felt that should have a, would have a universal appeal, that if you know, you like that type of imagery, that you would gravitate towards it, regardless of, you know, your race, that race, ethnicity, background or whatever. And that's ultimately what happened. It's ultimate and that's ultimately been the case with my work. I figured if we're getting away since then, um, you know, if 00:15:00they, if people can connect with it on some level on some, you know, spiritual level, creative level, whatever. The fact that the subject matter is an African American female, African female, you know, Afro-centric looking female, that doesn't really seem to have any effect on, you know what I'm saying? Didn't really, people are tripping over it.

Sophia Abrams 15:29

Gotcha. So were there any, so for that second semester? Were there any notable exhibitions that you were a part of?

Beth Ritter Perry 15:40

Um. Let me think. There were shows, let's see. I think I did a couple of shows at the Union, Wisconsin Union, um, and probably some other impromptu-type things. Um, we weren't really calling them pop-up shows back then. But yeah. That type of thing.

Sophia Abrams 16:14

So then, I guess before we jump into your second year, are there any other notable experiences or people or events that you think are worthwhile for this interview?

Beth Ritter Perry 16:33

Like I said, first year was just just about discovery and just meeting people. It was, I was a kid in a candy shop. Now, I was just, just having a ball. Buying art supplies. I had my own studio, dude. You know, I guess-- Are they still, 'cause the last time I looked, I think the building where my old studio was, had been torn down. So are they still providing grad students with studio space?

Sophia Abrams 17:02

Yeah.

Beth Ritter Perry 17:02

Very cool.

Sophia Abrams 17:04

I just talked to someone and he was saying how-- I forgot what year he graduated. But he was saying like, he was there when they tore it down. And then like, he got a new studio, but like, he was that class where he kind of was in an in between.

Beth Ritter Perry 17:19

Yeah.

Sophia Abrams 17:20

Yeah, I guess so. But, so that's summer 1983. Were there any notable experiences? Or did you just find, like, that you were kind of progressing on with screen printing or sorry, silk screen printing?

Beth Ritter Perry 17:37

Same thing. Yeah, I was. Yeah, it was pretty much progressing with that. I think I did a couple of, I did a couple of independent studies back to back so I was in the silkscreen studio all day. If that wasn't that summer. I think it was either that or I did a class with, with Dean Meeker and also one with Phil Hamilton that involved graphics. Handmade books, I think it was. And I think it 00:18:00was in that class. I met Marta Gomez, who later got into silk screen, and she and I became roommates. And she's, I think she's still there around town. Um, she's a bookmaker. She married a philosophy professor, Ivan Soll . But let's see, that particular summer. I'm gonna learn about the terrace that we were out on the terrace all the time. And by the time we were, you know, you finish up classes, just go eat popcorn and drink beer for the rest of the day. Feed the ducks. You know, you know how it goes. The terrace, summers in Madison were just magical. I tell my husband that all the time. The only rotten thing about it is was those daggone mosquitoes man, they had teeth. But they don't play, mosquitoes. Those Wisconsin mosquitoes do not play. But um, yeah, other than that, it was just great.

Sophia Abrams 19:01

Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay, so now let's talk about your second year. So I guess I'm curious to, um, when did you take the Greek art history class?

Beth Ritter Perry 19:16

Oh, Greek art history that had to have been summer of my second year. No wait a minute, I'm lying. Um, I think it was a.... It was cold out. It had to have been that spring semester. It had to have been that spring. Maybe it was that fall, because I remember towards the end of the semester, Warren had had some surgery or something. And he was out for a long time and his, I can't believe you have me remembering all this stuff. Um, his TA took over. And the class was still fun, but it wasn't as fun. Warren was crazy. He was. It was, it was a lot of fun, I think. And what was cool about then, I met a lot of people from a bunch of different disciplines. And there's just so much cross pollination there. Some of the, we had some of the best times. Warren had his put on, I think was the following summer, after he had returned, there were just a handful of people in his Greek art class, and he had us put on Lysistrata . And it was, it was fun. We had a lot of fun. But yeah.

Sophia Abrams 20:34

How do you think that by taking that class and learning about Greek art? How did that impact your work?

Beth Ritter Perry 20:41

Well, um, I've always liked ceramics also, as an undergrad, I almost majored in it. Um, so. And I've always liked sculpture too. So the influence of, you know, 00:21:00learning about Greek sculpture and Greek, Greek ceramics kind of had an impact upon my later forays into, into ceramics between that and you know, Japanese tea pots. Those Japanese tea pots. Yeah.

Sophia Abrams 21:21

So then, I guess to like for the grad, when you're a grad student, the first two years look, you're working towards your MA, and then you get your MFA. So I'm curious to know what kind of research you were doing. What I guess you kind of talked about this to believe what you were interested in, kind of discovering, and showcasing in your art.

Beth Ritter Perry 21:43

Um, I believe towards the, I think it was that summer, a summer of '83, maybe '84 had been '84. That summer, I really got into the photography, into the class with Cavalliere Ketchum. I always wanted to, to add had a friend who was in the law school working on his JD, Bill Calhoun. I think I might have mentioned him on my list, who was interested in Egyptology. And his thing was, you know, with the exception of Dr. Dior there were, there were no black Egyptologists. So I thought, oh, and dig around in there. So I took an Egyptian art class, a class done with ancient Egypt. Okay, so it was capital in ancient Egypt, and I think I did some more silkscreen that, that summer. Um, but what was the question again, um, you just have me thinking...going down memory lane, dude.

Sophia Abrams 22:43

I like to do. Um, my question was, what were some research topics?

Beth Ritter Perry 22:50

Okay. Okay. So, um, I was really, I just met Freida High Tesfagiorgis too. Um, so I was really interested in just checking out more information on African female artists, African American female artists, female artists of the diaspora. Women of Color, women artists. Just really digging around more in photography, from a technical, more of a technical end. With Cavalier I took, we did a lot of really large scale photography. I was also into bodybuilding at the time. And I would go to bodybuilding exhibitions and take tons of pictures and blow them up as posters but as van dyke prints and we did a lot of cyanotype posterizations. A lot of, I was playing around with a lot of alternative processes of hand coloring, and, you know, using different media for, for hand coloring my 00:24:00photographs. Cavalier had us projecting images onto these enormous sheets of photo paper that we had to treat ourselves and everything was, it was pretty exciting. So that summer, I was really into, into getting the technical, learning more about the technical aspects of the different areas that I was working in different media I was working in and different art, different artistic movements. Um, I've always loved surrealism, but I really jumped into it then and super realism too, Hyper Realism, Chuck Close. I really got into his work. Um, people like René Magritte as a surrealist Frida Kahlo, of course. Everybody was really starting to get to Frida Kahlo at that time. Um, I was trying to get, I was getting a lot of imagery, ideas for imagery from, you know, literature. You know, Alice Walker was big during that time. Toni Morrison. Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of, I was all over the place.

Sophia Abrams 25:29

I guess like from all of these different influences, be it, like, from literature, like different professors or bodybuilding? How did you see that translate in terms of like, I guess, in your art, but, like, what did your MA show look like?

Beth Ritter Perry 25:46

Actually, I didn't do an MA show. So they have y'all doing an image show and then you do an MFA show later?

Sophia Abrams 25:52

Yeah, I believe like, I'm not an art student. And we have the students do an MA show, I believe. And then you do an MFA show.

Beth Ritter Perry 26:01

That's interesting. Because when I was there, I only knew one person who was doing that doing an MA, and did the MFA, she did it. He did his MA show. Everybody else that I knew just went straight through, we just went straight through for the MFA show. So, um, I guess during that first summer, I mean, that second summer, I really started getting focused on actually, it was before then. Um, little bit before then but I really, really got into creating imagery that I thought would be suitable for the MFA show. And I just went crazy with, with the silk screen. I was doing really large scale ones. And the techniques that I would use-- Man, I had one print that had something like 103 colors on it. And 00:27:00yeah, yeah, I mean, when Dean saw that, when Dean, when Dean saw it he just totally freaked, and what's cool about it, and I still have a few copies of that one left. The paint was like it was about it's like an eighth of an inch thick. I had to be, like, really super careful in handling it or because oil-based media was a bit brittle back then wasn't as flexible like the, like the acrylic is now and yeah, I was, I was really into technique doing airbrush. I think I gotta get, I bought an airbrush. That's right. Because I wound up eating tuna fish for, for a while, so that I can afford that airbrush.

Yeah, dude. Bring me down memory Lane. I forgot about that.

Sophia Abrams 27:54

I like to hear the stories. Um, so then I guess, so that some of you are getting more it's like imagery and technique and expanding upon that. Yeah. Um, let me see. So I, um, how did that translate into the fall as you're like prepping for your MFA show?

Beth Ritter Perry 28:17

Just continuing on with it. Um, I think I took the class with Bill Wiggy to learn how offset printing worked. I did more classes with Phil Hamilton. Because I really loved the aesthetic of handset type. And typography, designing type. Um, I love the aesthetic of setting type on the printer on the press and integrating that with, you know, drawings. And also some, you know, some of my old lithographs that I'd done the first year. Just still a lot of, a lot of experimentation. And, and just scaffolding everything that I was learning.

Sophia Abrams 29:12

I guess one question I have going back. So you mentioned Professor High. And I'm curious to know how it was for you, granted how well like Madison, like you met people from all walks of life, like, you know, there are, there were only three black students in your cohort. And then like, Professor High being the only, I believe the only black woman art professor. Um, so what was that like for you to have her but also, like, at that time to like, she was, like, one of the first to be, I guess, creating discourse on like, you know, black woman artists at the time to like Afrofemmecentrism, I think.

Beth Ritter Perry 29:54

Yeah, Afrofemmecentrism, that's right. Actually, um, she was in with the African 00:30:00African Studies. And I'll never forget, I can't remember. Let me see which I can't remember what semester it was. But her classes were always packed tight. And if you could get in there, you have done something. And I remember I'd finally gotten it. It was a fall semester. I was so excited. And then, no, maybe it was a spring semester. Because it turned out there was this other class that I really, really, really needed to graduate. And her class was, oh my gosh, I wanted to take it but it wasn't it wasn't required. So it, oh, it broke my heart. It broke our heart. Because I wouldn't and I think she was on. She was on my committee. She was also on my committee. Um, but it was around that time she got married, she remarried. And she was all over the place. And I was all over the place busy too, and we didn't really have a whole lot of opportunities to, to sit down and just talk but she, when we did, it was always really fruitful. Really, really helpful, very encouraging. She's, she's truly a groundbreaker. Truly, truly, truly a groundbreaker. Yeah,

Sophia Abrams 31:16

I guess kind of in a similar vein, you mentioned a lot of notable peers from different walks of life, be it, like, art or poli sci, law, med school, mathematics, linguistics and law. So how did all those factors, like, come into play? Or like, what was I guess you kind of alluded to this before, but like, what was it like to, I guess, have so many peers of different mediums? I guess, like, so I recognized Kimberly Crenshaw from your list.

Beth Ritter Perry 31:47

Kim and I were tight. Oh my gosh, she was crazy. That girl's crazy. Oh, yeah. And you know, it's okay. So let's, let's go back. I'm just gonna go want to go back to first, very first semester. Girl parties. It was the parties if you go to parties, you didn't know, no, you don't know anybody. I'm trying to tell you. I met some of the coolest people. And we, it was so funny at these parties. We sit out, sit on somebody's, you know, front porch and you know, you know how it is that these, that these parties and you start discussing get these deep conversations? Oh, well, what you know, what school are you in? I'm in law or, you know, I'm in med school. And I'm like, this nut is in med school. This nut's gonna be a doctor. This nut's gonna be a researcher or whatever. But um, yeah, I think that the least... the common denominator in that broad range of disciplines, people, people in disciplines that are associated with its parties, it's parties. And it's funny around there you meet one person and it just, it just snowballs. Just like walking down State Street. You can start on the end 00:33:00within a, I'm not sure if it's even like a what's where the bookstore? I don't think the book is the bookstore still? Yeah.

Sophia Abrams 33:13

Yeah.

Beth Ritter Perry 33:15

Okay, you could start off because back in the day, it was like this courtyard, kind of like, a plaza is more like a plaza. And there was a guy that sold apple cider. And oh, gosh, what was it? You could buy apple cider, you could buy falafels that was where I got introduced to falafels. Um, you know, and there'd be, you know, carts out there just selling, you know, little little knickknacks and trinkets and stuff from, you know, Central America, for example. And you could start off there, you know, just laughing and talking, and having a smoothie with somebody and figure you're gonna walk to the other end of State Street up by the Capitol. And it could very easily take you four hours to get there. Because you're gonna, you're gonna have-- Is Steven Bruce still on State Street. Sorry, what is Stephen Bruce still on State Street?

Sophia Abrams 34:11

I don't believe it is.

Beth Ritter Perry 34:13

Okay. What about that? There was a Walgreens on the corner.

Sophia Abrams 34:18

That's still there. Yeah. Okay.

Beth Ritter Perry 34:20

I used to live kitty corner from that Walgreens, the, in some apartments, and I don't know if they even still live like a little fake balcony on top. I was like, the middle one. And that was my first year there. So I saw everything. Um, but like I was saying, you could start off in front, in that Plaza. It could take you four hours. Because, you know, you'd have to, you'd have to stop and get a coffee with somebody. Or, you know, you'd stop and you'd start laughing and talking to somebody and they'd introduce you to their group of friends that they're with and oh, you know, so and so's having a party tonight. Are you coming? Oh, yeah, we're gonna be there. And then you know, you just keep going and meet somebody else. "Oh friend of mine's having a party. Why don't y'all come?" That's that's just that's just how it started. That's just it's crazy. So, my best friend, and I'm trying to I'm trying to get in contact with this girl. This girl named Veronica Said. I think I mentioned her on, and she was, she was like a part-time student. She and I became the best because it became best buddies. Kathleen Cantu, she's still there. She's working on some smoking with some smoking cessation project with UW, UW-Madison. I just got a Christmas card from her. We're getting caught up. And I met her at a party. Uh oh, gosh, Yolanda Garza. I meant to mention her, she was the dean there. Just before a year or so before Donna Shalala showed up, as I think she was president or 00:36:00Chancellor or something, I don't remember. But, man, you just, just meet people. And that's you know. That's, that's how I met all of these folks, parties.

Sophia Abrams 36:15

No, that's... sorry, what were you saying?

Beth Ritter Perry 36:18

I was just saying lots of parties. It's, I've met all these folks. Hmm.

Sophia Abrams 36:22

Um, that's interesting. Um, I guess from that, just kind of like, as you kind of talked about your first semester, it was all about just kind of trying to find out like who you were, and like your place on campus. But then like, as you're doing that, you're also like, expanding your network, if you will, just like meeting people by chance and like, learning about different experiences. So then like, going back to your third year? How did, like, all of these different experiences paired with your, I guess, academic classes? I'm just like you diving deeper into screen printing? How did that I guess look like or what? What did that look like when you were preparing for your MFA show?

Beth Ritter Perry 37:18

Mmm. I would have some interesting conversations with a lot of these folks from different disciplines relating to feminism, black feminist politics, political situations in Central America and South America. Ah, and dealing with racism here in this country. It was before... Um, I was also, also participated in marches and protests in regard to UW, UW System divesting from its investments in South Africa. And that was just, you know, so cool, because it brought people together again. But then again, it opened up a lot of discourse. When we took over the Capitol for a night, and it opened up a lot of discourse, too, because I had no problem with loud talking people in regard to like, okay, so you got black neighbors that you're scared to talk to, or even look in their direction. But here you are fighting for freedom for South Africans that you've never laid eyes on, you ain't never gonna lay eyes on. So, what you got to say about that? Um, and I remember the night that we spent the night somebody had done a banner, 00:39:00you know, supposed to be you know, free South Africa, blah, blah, blah. And it was a very National Geographic looking image of a bare breasted, you know, a native woman, African native woman. And, you know, and they were busy passing the mic around, and, you know, does like, okay, now, I was basically like, y'all look at that better. Y'all know that ain't right. Y'all know, y'all know that. That is not right. You know, this is, this is not the way that African people should be depicted in this, in this circumstance. And y'all know that and they got kind of quiet. But they took it down. So it was a lot of experiences like that, that really spurred me on to recognize and, and realize and use my voice as, as a visual artist and as a creative as a creative person. Did that kind of answer your question?

Sophia Abrams 40:26

Yeah, I guess one question I did have from that, like, he kind of talked about this, too, but just like, kind of going off of like, be it like, the person making a poster that just like, wasn't right.

Beth Ritter Perry 40:39

Also it was a banner. It was huge.

Sophia Abrams 40:44

Um, I guess, you kind of find yourself in a position where it's kind of like, whether or not you want to have to, like, tell someone like, you felt like it was your responsibility, like, in some situations like, so I guess like, my question is like, from that, like, what? Or did you feel like as he became more grounded on campus, that you had more autonomy to speak out, or to like, just, like, be more vocal about when someone was wrong, you or wronging someone else? I guess.

Beth Ritter Perry 41:20

I was always kind of vocal. I was always kind of kind of vocal. Oh, you know, I'm, I'm the type that, I observe a lot. I observe a lot. And I weigh things out. In terms of, "okay, so is this really going to change anything, or is this person, they need to know? Because they can do better." And, you know, it kind of weighed out in that regard. And then that's when I say what's what, basically say what needed to be said. But I guess after that first semester, realizing 00:42:00that there were so, so few of us up there, people of color period. It was the first time, I'm jumping off on a tangent, for example, this was the first time I'd really seen homeless people. And there were a lot of Native American folks who would hang out in that plaza, you know, begging and it was back before they had homeless shelters and stuff. So people were, people were out there sleeping in the cold. And, you know, any opportunity is that I had to speak out against some of the stuff that I was saying, I spoke up. Nobody else going to do it.

Sophia Abrams 42:52

I guess, like, kind of concluding this. So when. So you have all these experiences. And then third semester or sorry, your second semester of your third year happened, and you have your MFA show? So can you talk a little bit about that, and like maybe what it was called?

Beth Ritter Perry 43:12

Oh gosh, you really make me think, what'd I call it? I'll have to look that up. I don't remember what I call my show. But, um, it was based on a lot of, a lot of my images were based on surrealism and dreams. Um, you know, okay, this, this is going to irritate me now. Because I can, I can see, I can see my invitation in my mind's eye just as clearly, just as clear as day. And the show itself, integrated the imagery, integrated my interest in fashion, photography, and surrealism. I guess I was kind of leaning into, you know, someone Elsa Chapretti really kind of stuff and Frida Kahlo, and some René Magritte. And it was all 2D. It was all silkscreen. There were no paintings and incorporate any paintings. I'm not online. I might have had a few handmade books in there. Yeah, I had a couple of handmade books in there too. And one of my handmade books was a calendar. And I remember I had a lot of the different guys that I knew from different different schools. Because I think Yeah, Jorge Obeso, so he was in there. He's a, he's a doctor. He's in Miami now. Um, Bill Calhoun. He got his JD. He was, he was in there. Yeah, a lot of the guys have different than, I knew 00:45:00from different different schools, different disciplines are in, that were part of that project. Um, of course I had everyone from all of these different schools and influences come to turn out at the show. And the show itself was, it was really nice. It was really nice. Um, yeah, I got to dig that up girl you got me going down memory lane.

Sophia Abrams 45:31

I guess, too. So I have two more questions for you. So now when you're again reflecting back on your time at UW, how do you see how Madison shaped you as an artist?

Beth Ritter Perry 45:49

Well, Madison really shaped me as a world, saved myself as a world citizen. Definitely. Um, and it definitely shaped me in terms of recognizing the importance of my voice as an artist as a creative person. The power in that it established me as an entrepreneur. And also as an educator, as a future educator. Madison helped me to realize that the world is my oyster really wide open, do what you want to do. All you need really, and this is gonna sound so corny, but all you need really is, is a dream and the desire and motivation to go for it, and, and make it happen. It really, the experience in Madison really gave me a strong, solid, firm foundation in that regard. And I guess that's why I tell, I tell any, any high school kid who will listen, go to Wisconsin, go to Madison, 'cause it's, it's awesome. It's awesome. It's awesome.

Sophia Abrams 47:18

Um, so I guess my last question is more.... So do you have any other things that you think are worthwhile to include that we didn't touch on for this interview?

Beth Ritter Perry 47:31

Oh, boy. Nothing that I can think of right now. But I think the first thing, one thing I'm going to do this week is to reconnect with my old portfolios of artwork from, because I don't think I mentioned that I'd worked with that with Robert Grilley. Who had not mentioned him, draw, my drawing professor. Um, he really instilled in me a love for drawing the human form. And I'll never forget, 00:48:00I guess this was, this was probably the beginning of my big beginning of the second year there, I was able to get it is life drawing class. Because I always wanted to do life drawing as an undergrad, but you know, being in the Bible Belt, you, you were getting, you weren't getting any, any naked models. And I'm, like, I told you before I was the youngest person in the class, I think I was like, 21, maybe 22. And all of these other students had been out for the longest time, they could draw their butts off. And grilling was pretty daggone awesome. And, you know, I was no slouch, I could, I could throw down but I was like, shoot. So I got in there. And I was just, I was just quiet. I was always taught as a kid, you know, you don't know. You know, just sit back and chill and watch. And I learned so much in that regard. And really had this habit, now I hated it, I hated it. And a lot of professors did this, where they just kind of walk around and just stand over your shoulder, just stay there for the longest time and not say a word while you were working. And just, you know, keep moving. And then he'd always seem to, you know, talk to other people, but would never say anything to me. And that irritated the crap out of me. And I remember once he was on a tear, 'cause I guess he was just seeing a lot of laziness with a lot of students. Working on the current drawing. And I guess we were about an hour or so into the class and I was really getting into that particular drawing, that particular pose. And he stood over me for what seemed like an eternity. And he stopped me from my drawing, and I thought, oh crap. He took my drawing. He held it up in front of the group. And he said, "y'all see this, this is what you should be doing. This is the kind of passion you should have with your drawing in your work, this is what you need to be doing." And he gave it back to me, you could have bought me for a nickel. But I was like, "Oh, okay." Alright. I guess, I guess this is, this is okay. So, and I don't think he really said anything else that he was hot. He was. Oh, he was on a tear. But yeah. And even beyond that he never really, he didn't really talk to me that much. There was something that he, he was unveiling a bunch of new paintings for that were going to be included in a book that somebody had done on him, and had invited all the students over to his house, and his paintings were just absolutely incredible. 00:51:00And I remember trying to engage in some small talk with the man, that just wouldn't happen. But, But Janet Smith was there, they were just chit chatting like it was nothing. So it was like, Okay, I'm just, I'm just here to enjoy the artwork. But you know, beyond that, it was a great class, a great experience, and he was a really good professor. He was really good.

Sophia Abrams 51:23

Well, thank you so much for taking some time out of your Sunday to talk with me. I really appreciate hearing your story. And I hope that whoever's listening also finds it worthwhile as I did.